Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I'm not really a fan of the narrative around Hamas actions having broad support of Gaza population because they were elected.

For one thing it completely ignores how Hamas campaigned during that election and attempted to rebrand themselves as a moderate group. Look it up.

It veers the conversation towards the people in Gaza deserve what they get which is plainly wrong and a disgusting position to hold.

So are you saying that you think that Israelis are Nazis?

The pearl clutching outrage is the preserve of those who are all bent out of shape by this conflict while been unfazed by larger and more bloody ones close by. The double standards and and utter hypocrisy of those people shows them for the bigots they are.

Arab delegation left China after 2 days and landed in Moscow.

Again I don’t think any of those people are left on this thread. I’d be surprised if you can name anyone who regularly contributes to this thread as condoning Hamas. I’m open to correction on that.

As for the references to Jewish history, many feel it’s relevant considering the atrocities that they lived through and how the state of Israel came to be today directly because of that. It’s a natural correlation to have especially if you sit on the side of the fence that believes Israel is engaging in ethnic cleaning, and forced movement, settlements etc etc

I think it is quite clear that Israel is engaging in forced movement of the Arab population in large parts of the West Bank. I think there is a larger proportion of the Palestinian Arab population that would like to see the total extermination of the Jewish Palestinian that is the case in reverse. I believe that a larger proportion of the Muslim population are religious fundamentalists than is the case in the Jewish population. I believe that democracy and democratic institutions are more compatible with the Jewish Faith than the Muslim Faith. That's an opinion based on the teachings of both faiths.

Much of the rhetoric on this has echoes of Trumps comment after Charlottesville that there are good people on both sides; while the actions of Israel can and should be criticised Hamas, in their ideology, intent and actions, are far worse. Full stop and without equivocation.

It's worth noting which countries are on the side of Israel and what values they hold in common. It's also worth noting the confluence of anti democratic countries aligned against them.

They pop up, and it can take some time before the mask slips and they leave the thread, whether voluntarily or involuntarily.

And just yesterday on the thread I was involved in a discussion where a poster refused to condemn Hamas for atrocities against civilians, deploying vague and evasive phrasings instead.

It is not a natural correlation. It is just lazy race baiting. It is bordering on Holocaust Denial, which is a form of anti-semitism (whether conscious or subconscious), because it belittles the true horror of the Nazis and the Holocaust. So as far as I'm concerned someone who engages in that is engaging in anti-semitism.

How many examples of ethnic cleansing, forced movement and settlements have there been in history? In the Middle East?

How many examples of massive bombing campaigns?

The reason why the Nazis have gone down in history for evil is not merely because of that. It is because of the deliberately deployed planned industrial scale horrors such as death camps to try to carry out their goals. The scale and deliberate nature of the genocide they planned.

There is a hatred of Israel that was there before October 7th. Some of that hatred is anti Western in nature, but some of it is undoubtedly anti-semitic.

"Everyone" else?

Well given that posters have thanked and agreed with my comments on the thread, not only is your statement demonstrably false purely based on the contents of the thread.

But also, do you remember posting this? These were your words earlier today:

"Stop pretending that you get to declare what is happening on the thread just because it is your say so."

From the same poster who makes declarations on behalf of "Everyone else" on the thread?

Isn't that you declaring what is happening on the thread?

I think posters on the thread can make up their own minds about where 'the BS' is coming from.

Someone is going to have to mediate in negotiations if it get's to that point. China and Russia have understanding with both sides and have openly condemned both sides at the UN.

You seem to miss the point that it was the Zionists idea to go and settle in that area of the World with the aim of creating a Jewish state there. They always knew based on their history with Islamists, that this would never be accepted and that the creation of a Jewish state on lands taken from the Arabs would never be accepted by their "neigbours". The Israelis have aways known they would have to fight for the existence of their state from the start, that is why they have always had such a strong military force from the start. People can argue about the right of Israel to exist, but the reality is if you take land from people against their wishes(whether you think justified or not), you can expect a certain level of hostility from those dispossessed. That is as old as hat. The Zionists have always known that.

Hey does anyone know when holocaust denial began? I would have imagined it began decades after, like say in the 80's where only then could one say that photo and video evidence has been faked.

Anyway, this Irish comedian has only waited a few weeks since the October 7th massacre. They don't waste much time these days do they.

This is what I wrote:

It is not a natural correlation. It is just lazy race baiting. It is bordering on Holocaust Denial, which is a form of anti-semitism (whether conscious or subconscious), because it belittles the true horror of the Nazis and the Holocaust. So as far as I'm concerned someone who engages in that is engaging in anti-semitism.

How many examples of ethnic cleansing, forced movement and settlements have there been in history? In the Middle East?

How many examples of massive bombing campaigns?

The reason why the Nazis have gone down in history for evil is not merely because of that.

How you got: "It's not Holocaust Denial to ask questions" from that I don't know.

How about responding to the actual points made as to why it is lazy race baiting and anti-semitic to call Jews Nazis? Because this post doesn't even attempt to do so.

Just because something should not be described as Nazi behaviour does not mean it is condoned. You are just demonstrating Godwin's Law by lazily jumping straight to Nazi, going past all the far more applicable and relevant examples from history as you do so. And when it relates to Jewish people, there is a responsibility before throwing around such language, and when such responsibility is not shown - it is anti semitic, unconscious or not.

It's the same disinformation tactics we saw Russian propagandists roll out, vague weasel words about "we don't know", the same "just asking questions" jaqqing off. Questions he will never ask of Hamas or their supporters. Any words said about Hamas will be couched in caveats and both sides and reservations. No such standard applied when discussing Israel.

Give him time he'll probably go full conspiracy theory nutjob and hinting it was an Israeli false flag.

Here's some questions for you.

1. Do you think that it was strange that Israel claims to have been caught completely unawares given that Egypt says it told them, and that given the numbers involved, the idea that Israeli intelligence wouldn't have picked up on it except simultaneously they want people to believe that they were able to grab a recording of Hamas personnel discussing the firing a rocket that hit a hospital at the start of the conflict?
2. Do you not think that Israeli reports as to 40 beheaded babies which was repeated by many (including Biden) but which Israel then said it couldn't confirm that it happened would lead to skepticism about other reports around the incident?
3. What do you think Netanyahu was implying when he said that Hamas was central to Israel achieving its goals?
4. Do you think asking these questions implies support for Hamas?

For the record, I think that the attacks on Oct 7th were brutal terrorist attacks carried out by people intent on harming as many Israelis as they could. All those who participated, planned and funded the attack should be held accountable or removed so that they can never do so again. But just because this is the case, I'm not going to blindly accept everything a group that is killing thousands of people and which has proven to have made false statements. Are you doing this?

The guy is a comedian / satirist. Is it really his job to justify his position on what form his satire takes? I'm not sure I see the numerous right wing / far right media commentators in the UK being challenged on just why they are supporting the Israeli regime.