Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Merely blaming Israel for the dead babies in Gaza is downplaying what Hamas is doing. Israel certainly have some culpability but the overwhelming blame lies with Hamas.

You seem to have lost track of the discussion.

The point is that when they don't condemn Hamas for atrocities, when they don't ask Hamas to stop attacking Israel from civilian sites or ask Hamas to release the hostages - but only ever ask questions about Israel's conduct they out themselves as terrorist apologists and Hamas supporters and defenders. Sure they can carry on like that, and when they do so they will correctly be called out as such. They can have that opinion and they can be right labelled terrorist apologists. Because that is what they are.

Nope. Read exactly what was posted, and read what was asked. They are not the same thing. Atrocity and killing are not the same thing. Murder and killing are not the same thing.

The vague phrasing "in which civilians were killed" - this doesn't actually assign any culpability to Hamas for the deaths of the civilians. It doesn't assign any culpability to Hamas with regard to deliberately targeting and murdering civilians.

So - your own advice - go back and read the posts. Don't skip over them.

You’re entitled to that view. I obviously as I asked didn’t read it into it the same way.

Same way I’d appreciate you answering this. I don’t think I’ve seen you, and correct me if I’m wrong, condemn Israel for any of their wrongdoings before or after Oct 7th.

Well, he's not on TV or radio or writing for a national newspaper, therefore there's no obligation on him to show 'balance' or to satirise both parties to the conflict.

In fact, I don't think RTE or the BBC would even allow any satirist to produce satirical content about what's happening in Israel / Gaza at the moment. It would be considered too sensitive a topic for mainstream TV.

I categorically, unequivocally, absolutely compeletely disagree.

Israel is absolutely responsible for the bombs that it drops.

This is the veil of Zionism I was referring to. Israel does not get to absolve itself of its own actions when it is clearly and repeatedly targeting civilian locations just because some of its citizens were killed in a horrific attack.

Nine times out of ten when such a wording is used, it is done deliberately, rather than carelessly. I have seen such phrasings elsewhere on this forum, and in short order it becomes clear why it was worded that way, as a way of weakening what was actually said but pulling the wool over the eyes of casual readers.

"Any" of their wrong doings? Ever? That is very vague. I have not jumped in defending Israel against "any" and "all" of their "wrongdoings". On the subject of civilian casualties in Gaza in the current conflict, there is considerable debate on culpability between Hamas - in basing itself in civilian areas - and Israel, in targeting Hamas in those areas.

Before October 7th, Israel was normalising relations with other powers in the region. The major obstacle to peace and progress is Hamas, who instead of focusing on protecting and improving the lives of Palestinians, have embraced conflict with Israel.

How do you know he has?

I have repeatedly couched my language with caveats that it is based on what I have read, and that I withdraw my remarks if such comments were made and are still stood over. I have tried to state it conditionally, laying out the criteria under which I made the accusation.

A quick google suggests I am on the right track... we have a full blown Hamas supporter and terrorist apologist here:

Irish "comedian" Tadhg Hickey says that he doesn't condone Hamas but describes their actions as those of legitimate "freedom fighters".

Do you think the Hamas atrocities on October 7th were those of legitimate freedom fighters?

'im going to keep on shooting you despite the fact you are behind a human shield and it's your fault if i hit the human shield.'

you know, in every analogous real life situation that would be an absurd twist of logic. it's like driving in a straight line and expecting the world to get out of the way.

Apparently a cabinet meeting this evening so imagine a vote on this. Helpfully agreed to hostages can be released.

I didn't say there was an obligation to show balance. I said that when his satire is only directed at one set of targets, taken in conjunction with his other public comments on the topic, it is reasonable and legitimate to call him out as a terrorist apologist and Hamas supporter. It is not being done just in the name of comedy, of what gets the best laughs. It is serving political ends. And therefore he cannot hide behind the shield of satire \ comedy as a defence. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

They were normalising relations with other Arab powers in the region. This is publicly documented, and the current conflict has put that on hold.

The settlements need to be curtailed, that needs to be on the table.

They are launching attacks from high density civilian locations, to what end? Sometimes apparently hitting their own civilians.

It is documented they have launched attacks at Israel from schools, to what end?

Does that show any regard for the lives of Palestinians?

They have bases under hospitals. They hide in refugee camps. They wear no uniform.

Does that show any regard for the lives of Palestinians?

And you're going to try to defend those war crimes by saying Gaza is densely populated? Come off it.

Imagine you're a farmer and you have a neighbouring farmer with whom you have a land dispute. You hate each other and have been smashing each others stuff for years. You've been killing each other's animals and doing all sorts of nasty stuff. You've done your fair share to make the problem worse over the years but at the moment things are calm. Your other neighbours don't really like you either but and you're about to reach an agreement with those neighbouring farms to normalise things with them.

The fist neighbour really doesn't like that so one day he comes into your house, smashes the place up, kills some of your children and kidnaps a few more.

You get your gun and you chase after him, right back to his own home. You smash in, looking for your children. You set fire to the place to try to flush him out. You don't care if his children are upstairs and might burn. When you find him he grabs one of his own children and used them as a human shield while shooting at you. If you leave there's a high probability you'll never see your kidnapped children again.

Your name is Israel. What do you do?

I don't think anyone responded to your post Sir_Name so i thought it was well worth repeating it, considering all these statements of intent to commit genocide are publicly on the record.

Incredible really to say these things in public from people in power.