Organic + what?

n1st · 21-11-2023 8:57pm #1

Just joined organics for low stock beef farming.

I don't see OFS is enough and I want to plant trees and improve hedgerows for both biodiversity and income.

With 20 hectares to play with there are some options but it's complicated as the options clash with each other. No Teagasc advisor will answer questions on the other options. In BISS, Criss and ANC.

Additional options are ACRES and Agroforestry.

Which one would you take?

1. Hedgerows via ACRES, 2000 per year, with an upfront cost to plant, paid by you.

2. NTA1 and Agroforestry Silvopasture, 4000 per year. Obviously this part of farm is now forestry forever. unclear of losses here with BISS, CRISS and ANC and OFS.

3. Both of the above. Unclear if this is permitted.

Decisions must be made in the next 2 weeks.

blue5000 · 21-11-2023 10:55pm

If there's potential for a riparian zone then Acres is worth a closer look. But I'm not in it myself. AFAIK it will give you acres payment without losing a lot of ground from organics.

How old are you? Reason for asking is permanent, proper commercial forestry on some of the bad land (if there is any), might be a better commercial option in the long term than grazing organic cattle on it.

minerleague · 21-11-2023 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058323647/organic-what

Why not both? just dont pick area based options in acres. Can draw all payments + organics with agroforestry. Think NTA you lose that area for organic payment

tanko · 22-11-2023 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121398299#Comment_121398299

Why not pick area based options, surely two hectares (or part of) a riparian zone at €1530/hectare is an option worth considering.

minerleague · 22-11-2023 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400371#Comment_121400371

Sorry was thinking of extensive grazing or low impact grazing areas only , didn't think of that

Water John · 22-11-2023 10:15pm

I'm using the 2ha with the ten trees option. I lose the organic payment on those but it's worth it. The other options I'm doing are planting native trees along beside the fences 300 at 4m apart. Also doing 520m whitethorn hedging, 2,600 plants. That's it.

Water John · 22-11-2023 10:17pm

That's in ACRES.

n1st · 22-11-2023 10:25pm

I don't have a Riparian zone. If I had then it would be ideal for ACRES.

I have also confirmed that Agroforestry e.g. Silvopasture does not clash with Organic. This option feels best for me.

ACRES"linear actions" such as hedgerows are also an option which don't clash with Organic.

In theory OFS + Agroforestry + ACRES hedgerows (or other linear) should work together.

In order to do NTA1 one hectare native I will need to take that area about of OFS.

Water John · 22-11-2023 10:34pm

Silvopasture seems to affect CRISS and ANC payments. That needs to be checked. I'm very interested in Silvopasture but want to be sure how it affects land designation. Would like to do 5ha next year possibly.

n1st · 22-11-2023 10:52pm

Whoever wrote these schemes has created a job for life for advisors .

We need to see a matrix with what can be mixed and what cannot and where the max income can be gained.

n1st · 24-11-2023 1:58pm

Here's my conlusion today.

BISS = 5000.
OFS = 5000.
ACRES Linear Actions = 1000 + new hedgerows.
Agroforestry = 1400 + trees.

No NTA1 or NTA2, too severe, removes Organic and BISS.

Nothing affects Organic.

Some affect on BISS with Agroforestry.

Addition of trees and hedgerows.

Water John · 24-11-2023 2:07pm

Have you more scope in ACRES?

n1st · 24-11-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121411909#Comment_121411909

Not really. Linear Actions only seem to be suitable as I'm in OFS. I'll probably do hedgerows, stone wall.

Water John · 24-11-2023 3:02pm

Yes, I'm limited by Organic status as well. Doing nearly 300 trees and over 500m hedges.

n1st · 24-11-2023 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121412280#Comment_121412280

With ACRES?

n1st · 24-11-2023 3:38pm

Might be interesting for others to note here;

So BISS -> OFS -> ACRES Linear -> Agroforestry. These 4 may work together with limitations.

Interesting is that I had to go for OFS partially to get into ACRES and then find that what's left in ACRES for me is quite small.

Forestry conflicts with everthing
Agroforestry may conflict with BISS only.
ACRES conflicts with OFS.

It was very doubtful that I was to get into ACRES this year (no watercourse).

OFS, Forestry and Agroforestry were the options remaining in order to get additional income and make some inprovements. Additionally OFS improved the chances of being accepted into ACRES.

I applied for OFS, relatively easy.

I then looked at Forestry and Agroforestry, likeD what I saw. Found out that Forestry conflicts with Organic and BISS but Agroforestry is pretty much ok.

I then went back to my ACRES application with my OFS details, still no guaranttee of ACRES but it's not worth much to me anyway.

Water John · 24-11-2023 5:28pm

I'm planting both the trees and hedges alongside fences. You can go to about 270 trees at 4m spacing, hedges are 5/m as designed in conjunction with my advisor. If memory is correct, I have about €7K/yr but that includes 2ha riprarian with its grove of 10 trees set 2.5m apart.

n1st · 24-11-2023 8:33pm

Sounds good.

I learned too that forestry and Agroforestry pay for the planting, fencing and maintenance and then pays per year.

ACRES pays per year, no initial grant as far as I know.

Different planting types of course which might not suit everyone.

Water John · 24-11-2023 10:36pm

Correct, buying my own trees and hedges. Hedging is dear because it's strong, 2,600 x €1.30 = €3,380. Trees 300 x €1.30 = €390. Sessile oak is around €1.80 so will get some of those in the mix. So around €4K in plants, a good bit of year 1 payment, but that's alright. Normally hedging would be 60 cent, so that would be nearer to €2K if I went that route. Supply of hedging is very scarce.

Organic + what?

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