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Napoleon - Apple TV+ - Ridley Scott & Joaquin Phoenix

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp



    this is a decent reaction to the trailer, points out the historical and military differences , at the end of the day you dont get your history from Shakespeare so if it makes people more interested in history, not a bad thing


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Reaction videos are the most meaningless, insipid content there is. If the thing is reasonably authentic, that'll be good enough.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Take a movie like Michael Collins or Braveheart, you wouldnt want to just leave it at that, which is what you are implying someone should do

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I didn't imply anything of the sort so stop with the lies, please. I just commented on the video you just dumped here. Reaction videos are the laziest content to make and they're tantamount to stealing IMO.

    Braveheart is all but fantasy, Michael Collins is far from the worst historical film ever made despite the abundance of Julia Roberts.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    if the person making the video clearly knows more about the subject than I do or you, then its all good, Im more knowledgeable for seeing it, that is a positive, so your blanket statement doesnt really add anything

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I can honestly say that I've never learned anything from anyone who dumps videos and follows up with lies and snarky comments.

    We're done here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    youre funny, in your case I forbid you to watch it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The thumbnail alone guarantees I won’t watch it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A Hollywood movie is taking liberties with history or creative interpretations of historical personalities? My god this has never happened before!




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Ridley Scott had mangled history in a lot of his movies but this won't prevent me from watching this movie. Its just good to watch a historic epic in the cinema. Scott does seem particularly obnoxious in interviews when asked about the historical accuracy though.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yeah.

    If it feels authentic enough, it'll be fine by me. I ultimately go to the cinema to be entertained. I've Andrew Roberts' biography of the man for when I want to properly learn about one of the most remarkable lives in history.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Interesting the French critics are calling it pro British and anti French. Hard to know how accurate that statement will be given Napoleon was a tyrant and a bit of a warmonger.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's a matter of perspective. Either Napoleon or Subutai would claim the mantle of history's greatest general. Napoleon left reforms some of which remain in place today and essentially dominated the continent until his disastrous Russian campaign. Had he accepted peace at his zentih, who knows what could have been. Contiental Europe still retains much of his reforms while the US, the UK and the former British Empire retain a legal tradition founded on English Common Law.

    To put it bluntly, very few people who changed anything weren't horrible. George Washington owned slaves for instance.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    As much as I like Vanessa Kirby, I hope they don't go too far down the angle of her dominating him as implied by the trailer.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think in real life though Napoleon did act a bit of a fool in his love for Josephine. I seem to recall that she had a number of affairs when they were together.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭nachouser


    I'm fine with the odd historical inaccuracy, as long as the film includes the hand to hand fight at the Colosseum between Napoleon and Wellington. Only then will I be entertained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Ridley truly is one ornery fella; not sure just slamming The French as self loathing will go down entirely well but hey; it's a choice.

    And a biographer of Napoleon, Patrice Gueniffey in Le Point magazine, attacked the film as a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history.

    "The French don't even like themselves" Scott retorts. "The audience that I showed it to in Paris, they loved it."




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The Musée de l'Armée is one of my all time favourite museums. They've uploaded a video where they critique the film. I spent a whole day there and left wanting to go back. They've got Napoleon's Sword of Austerlitz and the legend himself is buried there.

    I can't see myself paying to watch it at the BFI. I was so looking forward to this but I think a walk to Cineworld will suffice.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭limnam




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    he was 5'7 , I wonder how much English propaganda we have absorbed about him because we are in the Anglo sphere?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I was in Spain a few years ago and they definitely didn't have anything good to say about Napoleon either. Probably affected the British and Spanish more than anyone else, with perhaps the Polish having a soft spot for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Ahead of his time. Tried to unify Europe long before the EU brought in great reforms. Took the British and the Germans (Prussia) to bring him dowm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    he certainly had unintended consequences, it was the first army to have mass conscription , and it motivated the Germans to move beyond their medieval ways of organising for war. No Napoleon and there may not have been a WW1 or WW2

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think the French revolution inspir3d the introduced of conscription rather than Napoleon himself. Hitler definitely was inspired by Napoleon, even was respectful at his tomb. I think Napoleon definitely showed even with more modern weaponry with a professional army you could still successfully invade alot of Europe. I hope Ridley doesn't depict him as a total fool.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I'd be inclined to wait for the full movie as they might leave a lot of the political exposition out of it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭limnam


    Walked straight into kutsovo's trap.

    He was a clown with a chip on his shoulder.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Took more than one pan-European coalition. If he hadn't made his ill-fated march to Moscow, who knows how things might have turned out.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,616 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its more than just that. The propaganda version stuck because the Napoleon complex reads as a much better story. We want it to be true.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭limnam




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,281 ✭✭✭limnam


    Legacies tend to get muddied

    Regardless of his physical height while smaller than the average male. His actions are that of someone with small man syndrome.

    When your the cause of the deaths of millions of people mostly young for your own personal glory.

    People often assign "tactical brilliance" to a war won. It's like anything else. There was a huge amount of people that don't get a single line wrote about them that would have had a huge impact on tactical decisions. Historians are often lazy and the general public more so. So it's kept simple and focused on the one little jumped up runt of a man so he claims all the plaudits.

    His thirst for his own personal ambition was his downfall and led to his eventual demise.

    The amount of human suffering he caused is beyond comprehension.

    Anyone that thinks such a person is a genius or a hero would want to have a long hard look at themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,524 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    so has anyone seen the film yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    one review I saw, out of the cinema was ,"and this happened, then this happened, then this happened....." but looks good

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is looking like another Scott botch job. I'll suspend judgement until I see it but I'm feeling more and more pessimistic.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,087 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    this is a film, not a historical documentary !!

    why do people have difficulty separating the two ?

    I will happily watch the film, but have feck all interest in a historical documentary on Napoleon 



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's a shame. He's one of the most successful and fascinating people to ever have existed.

    As for the historical side of the film, I think expecting authenticity is fair while expecting accuracy beyond a certain point is a bit naive. A inconsistencies in the battle of Austerlitz is one thing, having Napoleon fight Hitler or something stupid like that would be immersion-breaking.

    Braveheart and Michael Collins are good examples. It doesn't matter that the details of Harry Boland's death are wrong or that Ned Broy was never found out by Dublin Castle. The film feels authentic and that's enough. Braveheart, by contrast, would only be rendered slightly less realistic by the presence of dragons and wizards. There's a limit is what I'm trying to say.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Same as yourself. All I know about Napoleon is what I learned in school and what I might have picked up over the years from the media. I am looking forward to watching this for entertainment, not to tear it apart on account of inaccuracies.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yet by all accounts I got the impression around the time of release that the Scots liked the movie? Though perhaps over time that has melted away after the white heat of hype subsided.

    I wonder how Kubrick's famed biopic that never was, had planned to tackle Napoleon; it is the problem with biopics in the first place though. It's very difficult to condense a person's life into a 2, 3 hour runtime without making some judicious leaps, omissions or conjectures.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,806 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    TBH, everything I've seen about this film has just made me commit to clearing a block over Christmas to finally watch the Abel Gance 1927 Napoleon that I've been putting off for a few years (Blu-Ray is just sitting there waiting to be watching).



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've tried & tried, but watching Silent Movies is just a step too far. The theatricality, the utter lack of even archaic techniques, the distracting make-up often used by cast, and yeah - the silence. Tried a few Buster Keatons after the Blank Cheque podcast spoke of him a few months back and nope'd out of them quick enough.

    It's like reading Chaucer as a hobby; sure it has some historical importance but as an act of "enjoyment", almost insurmountable and alien in places such are the differences from anything tangential to a modern appetite



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,835 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    They probably did. I was referring to stuff like the Battle of Stirling Bridge being moved off the bridge being in the way. A local apparently asked why and the filmakers told him this to which he responded that that was the point.

    Biopics are difficult, sure. But there's no need to add superfluous, immersion-breaking nonsense like Napoleon attacking the pyramids.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That does seem like an odd choice 'cos IIRC Napoleon was absolutely obsessed with ancient Egypt, right? Seems like the very last person who'd attack the pyramids would be someone like him.

    Definitely not justifying major swings, just more a commentary that it's an impossible task and perhaps always demonstraets that movies aren't necessarily the right fit for historical epics of certain stripes - or indeed lifetimes of "Great Men" of history.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,806 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I've never had any issue 'enjoying' silent films - indeed, Buster Keaton films are basically my cinematic comfort food, as I find them so delightful. But yes, there is a brain adjustment needed as they're a very different experience to watching a modern film. The main blocking point with Napoleon thus far has been mainly its running time, as opposed to it being silent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think in the trailers it just appears the pyramid is hit by a stray cannon ball not that they are aiming at it. I believe the battle of the pyramids was miles away from the pyramids but I dont really care, it does look a bit cool. Someone mentioned Braveheart and Michael Collins, both films had inaccuracies but both films are enjoyed by the respective historical people's country men. If Napoleon is skewed to be anti French and Pro British (as in the brits are saving the world from a tyrant and protecting freedom) i may give it a miss under until it is on streaming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Napoleon would wipe the floor with Hitler. Allowing of course for similar era weapons.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In fairness, most notable historical figures would probably beat Hitler at "war"; christ most 4x gamers these days would. Monster as he was, one thing Hitler most certainly was not, was militarily minded or intelligent. And thank fúck for that, I might quickly add, that his stubbornness caused so much self-sabotage of his own war effort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    He went to the pyramids but had to leave in a hurry.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I think it was the British that used them and others for their pot shots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭head82


    Speaking of authenticity in films. Anyone else remember the lad that rang into the Joe Duffy show to complain about the lack of authenticity in The Banshees of Inisherin? His main gripe was the character of an Irish guard in a film set in 1923. Joe responds with.. "but the Irish Gardai were established in 1923". Yer man replies with "yes, but not until September 1923, there was a calendar on the wall of the guards office that showed 'June' 1923. How did you not see that Joe?". Him and his mate walked out of the cinema as a result!

    He had other gripes.. something about the breed of cattle in the film that weren't introduced into Ireland until many years later.

    Now that's a level of nitpicking to aspire to!

    I'd be surprised if this fella could last more than 10 minutes at Ridley Scotts 'Napoleon'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭niallpatrick


    Joachim Phoenix damn fine actor, really got me in 8mm then in Gladiator absolutely brilliant. I'd love to see joker but can't watch it due to Gary Glitters music being used as a backing track during the steps scene. Nothing to do with the actor or the director producers but somebody messed up.



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