Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

That's silly.

Would you protest against the Irish government today if they were sending aid, military or otherwise operational, to Hamas? Or would doing so make you a bigoted anti-muslim? Because you haven't protested equally about all the other unconnected and unrelated events that have occurred in the last 10 years?

People in the West always protest when countries in the West unconditionally prop up States and governments that commit atrocities.

Again, more conspiracy theory nonsense.

Nowhere did I paint anyone who is critical as being anti-semitic.

I listed specific behaviour that is anti-semitic, and noted anti-semitism as being one major factor in the criticism that Israel gets relative to other states.

So "Bit of a disingenous response"? Sums up your post perfectly.

They don't protest on anywhere near the same scale, as you are well aware. It is always Israel that gets it.

If the Irish government was sending aid to Hamas like regimes around the world, carrying out Hamas like actions, and one particular regime gets 10 times the protests of another - that warrants examination.

The why of that, is what was being discussed and the point you completely missed in your rush to labelling things "that's silly".

No - he was a Holocaust survivor as a child. Mate claiming to be one seems a pace with him being a fringe headbanger.

It's perfectly okay for Holocaust survivors to be anti-Israel. It's not as o.k. to claim to be one when you were a baby then and then use that claim for furtherance of your politics.

Is it really markodaly? You might not like to accept it given your own political views , but America engaging in regime change is factual- the CIA admit in their own declassified files down through the years.

I don't think it's accurate to say that people hold Israel to a different standard than some other countries in that region just because of some sort of anti-semitic reasons. After all the South African Afrikaner government was similarly subjected to mass protest and condemnation in the West during the era of Apartheid.

My own theory on the matter is that places like Saudi Arabia and Iran that are absolute pariah states, run by ruthless autocracies who rule their people with an iron fist. They don't have freedom of speech or freedom of the press and have never really had a history of these things. People see places like that and just think they're a lost cause.

In contrast, people see a country like Israel that's a functioning democracy with a free press and a highly educated population that has a look and feel of many of the southern European countries that also border the Mediterranean. They see a place like that and it's easier to imagine it like their own country. That's why it hurts so much more to see how they treat the Palestinians. (Obviously in Ireland then there's a whole other layer when it comes to seeing people get disposed off of their land by colonisers backed up by military might like the settlers in the west bank - that just reminds us of our own not too distant past and the pain that our ancestors went through.)

Is there any crime, or any point, at which you think it would be possible for a non-jew-hating, non-antisemitic, person to legitimately criticize Israel? Even if they haven't devoted at least as many words to every single bad thing that has happened anywhere in the world during their lifetime?

Disingenuous much?

And already asked and answered below.

When it is only Israel being criticised, when Hamas is not, when the insult Nazi is hurled at Israel for conduct they would not describe as Nazi from others - that is when the legitimacy should be questioned. Or rather, that is when is is entirely legitimate to question the agenda and motivation for this difference.

And Israel is bashed by them as an ally of the USA. And on a scale, relative to their conduct, that far exceeds the bashing given to Arab allies in the region. There is a hatred in the PBP attacks on Israel that is not seen in attacks on other allies, attacks on similar conduct. That hatred warrants an explanation.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, we have all criticized them, I've advocated that they be removed (leadership targeted/funders sanctioned etc).

That is a given, the absence of posts justifying Hamas reflects the widespread condemnation of them.

But Israel has killed vastly more people, ruined the lives of vastly more people, and influences life in Gaza vastly more than Hamas does in Israel. It also enjoys vastly more funding and military support.

It is a tired and feeble excuse to say that Israel cannot be criticized unless similar weight of criticism is given to Hamas.

To be honest and fair, I personally have no problem with being called or labelled anti-semitic if the cause of such criticism is the calling out of the state of Israel for heinous acts. Being Jewish does not give them special dispensation to engage in the great civilian slaughter they have engaged in. They don't get a special pass just because they are Jews. The same expectations and perhaps even more some should be demanded of them as everyone else.

I might also point out that I had Jewish friends in school and still keep in touch with some. I know one chap out in US and he's as appalled as anybody.

What was he overthrown for ?

No, "we" haven't all criticised them if by that you mean in the context of this thread. The majority has. But there has been dissembling and tacit condoning of Hamas as I outlined yesterday.

And in wider social media and global terms, the concept that Hamas has been criticised from all quarters certainly does not apply.

So when only Israel is being criticised, and never Hamas & when the level of criticism of Israel far exceeds the criticism of other conflicts, then it is entirely legitimate to critique that.

Ah, that's great news. Fingers crossed Emily is okay physically and mentally and hasn't been too traumatised by her ordeal.