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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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    #21332
    Be right back
    Registered Users Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭Be right back


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400982#Comment_121400982

    I know, that poor child. What an ordeal she must have had.



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    #21333
    ollkiller
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Aye no doubt she'll have trauma to deal with as she grows up. But shes alive. Thankfully.



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    #21334
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,520 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Ireland to given funding to the ICC to aid the investigation into the prosecution of the Israeli war crime government.

    https://twitter.com/aliciavperry/status/1727353439607533951


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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    #21335
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400907#Comment_121400907

    The mistaken belief that democracy could flourish in the Middle East...



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    #21336
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,520 ✭✭✭brickster69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401152#Comment_121401152

    You are not worth the time mate.

    Mass burial today from those who died at Al Shifa hospital. I'm sure that guy is the one who lost half his family in a bombing the other week.

    https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1727352593037586682


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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    #21337
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401168#Comment_121401168

    Is it because I dont buy into cheap and easy-to-digest narratives about the US, oil, the petrodollar and every other story that sounds good down the pub?


    As to the video, they could be all Hamas militants as far as we know, there is no context to the video.



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    #21338
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400976#Comment_121400976

    'only Israel is being criticised, and never Hamas'

    Patently a lie. As I said yesterday, I wasted too much time dealing with your semantics, I'm not doing it again today.



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    #21339
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400826#Comment_121400826

    That is genuinely fantastic news.



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    #21340
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400023#Comment_121400023

    I have no problem with criticising Israel. I have a problem with the casual use of words like Nazi and Genocide. I have a problem with people failing to acknowledge that Hamas is a death cult with the total destruction of Israel and the killing of every Jewish man woman and child at its core. It is, in it's entirety, as bad or worse than the most extremist fringes of Israeli society. A failure by reasonable people to attribute a large proportion of the blame to them for every dead Arab Palestinian civilian is unacceptable. The Israelis are killing them but Hamas are creating and encouraging the circumstances which enable their deaths and they will rejoice as much as any fundamentalist Israeli nutter at the death of their own children.



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    #21341
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,358 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401194#Comment_121401194

    The lie is the lie of omission you have just committed by selectively quoting my post, in at attempt at misrepresentation.

    This is what I actually wrote, which is conditional and caveated:

    And in wider social media and global terms, the concept that Hamas has been criticised from all quarters certainly does not apply. So when only Israel is being criticised, and never Hamas & when the level of criticism of Israel far exceeds the criticism of other conflicts, then it is entirely legitimate to critique that.

    Words change the meaning of sentences, that is not mere 'semantics', otherwise you would not have prejudicially selectively quoted my post.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #21342
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Trust seems to be broken for many moderate and progressive Israelis in terms of trusting their Arab/Palestinian neighbours.

    This wont be fixed in a few years.


    https://twitter.com/JustLuai/status/1727343320068702334?s=20




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    #21343
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,261 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401201#Comment_121401201

    That reasoning wasn't acceptable when the US was hunting Isis in Iraq, and it's even less so now. The person who fired the bullet is responsible for who it hits. Simple as



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    #21344
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401208#Comment_121401208


    So is it 'when' or 'never' that you want to pin your hat to? They imply conflicting functions of the sentence they are in.

    Look at me falling for the trap again.



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    #21345
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It is good news that 50 or so hostages are released.

    No doubt the military pressure the IDF has inflicted on Hamas has helped deliver this outcome.

    Hope that the other 190 or so who will still be in captivity will be released unharmed.



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    #21346
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,358 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401223#Comment_121401223

    It means the comments apply when that is the behaviour.

    That it does not apply to those posters and other commentators who are even handed in their criticisms, standards of judgment and use of language towards Israel versus other actors, especially Hamas.

    It is possible to criticise Israel without that meaning it is anti-semitic, but there is clearly a type of criticism which is anti-semitic.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #21347
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,947 ✭✭✭circadian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401201#Comment_121401201

    I'm not sure what you mean by death cult but yes, Hamas is an extreme organisation. Instead of looking at it from the viewpoint that they are creating the scenario that Israelis are then killing thousands of Palestinians but instead look at why a group like Hamas came to be. What were the conditions to cause people to reach the point of desperation to vote for them? Honestly, I doubt many of the people in Gaza truely support Hamas and they were going to get into power either by the ballot or the bullet. It's no secret that Netanyahu wanted Hamas in power to cause division and disorder, they were getting into that position one way or another.

    I would also agree with the ascertation that it is an extreme fringe of Israeli society that is pushing this, but there is a level of support within the population although I do wonder how much that has slipped since October 7th. These elements have no interest in peace talks (much like Hamas) and I'd liken the behaviour of both to that of hardline Unionism in the North, wanting to derail the Good Friday Agreement.

    What really needs to happen is moderation from both Arab neighbours and western nations. Tacit support of Israels "right to self defence" has weakened the position of western nations to moderate proceedings and in my eyes, has further damaged any possible peaceful solution.

    Hamas needs to go, but so does the current government in Israel.



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    #21348
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400844#Comment_121400844

    "They don't get a special pass just because they are Jews." I don't think anyone is suggesting that they do. If anyone is suggesting it then they have a very strange view of the world as there are protests taking place just about everywhere against Israel. Our government is quite critical of them. Some left wing politicians want to expel their ambassador. None of those same people are protesting against larger and more violent conflicts. None of the marchers are marching against those larger and more violent conflicts. None of our left wing politicians are calling for the expulsion of any other ambassadors.

    So the question is why is Israel singled out for special criticism? Is it because they are Jews or is it because they are white? Why do those same people not criticise Saudi Arabia for it's role in Yamen? Is it because the Saudis aren't Jewish or is it because they aren't white? I think there's an element of anti Semitism, an element of racism and an element of anti-Americanism, all mixed up with unthinking outrage by people with short attention spans.



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    #21349
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,520 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Over 3000 arrested in the West Bank since he 7th.

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-arrests-35-more-palestinians-in-west-bank/3061640


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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    #21350
    Multipass
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401225#Comment_121401225

    It’s interesting that part of the deal is that Israel pauses surveillance drone flights for 6 hours a day. Why would that be top of Hamas wants list? It would be a mistake to let them mobilise.



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    #21351
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401253#Comment_121401253

    I broadly agree with that and I strongly agree with your last point. The culpability of neighbouring Arab nations in all this should not be ignored. The Palestinian Araba have been exploited and betrayed by everyone in the region.



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    #21352
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401225#Comment_121401225

    Hamas offered to release hostages weeks ago though didn't they?.

    What are your hopes around the 2000 odd Palestinians held without charge in Israeli Prisons?



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    #21353
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401264#Comment_121401264

    I guess they (Hamas) don't want to be caught scurrying out of their tunnel-like rats to safety among the civilian population.



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    #21354
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401279#Comment_121401279

    Did they?

    The promise to release all and every single hostage a few weeks ago?

    ...

    .

    .



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    #21355
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    From the BBC:


    After talks continued into the early hours of Wednesday morning, Israel's coalition government finally signed off on this deal.

    A statement from the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that 50 women and children would be released over four days, during which time "a pause in the fighting will be held".

    It also offered Hamas an incentive to release more, saying: "The release of every additional 10 hostages will result in one additional day in the pause."


    If or when the truce is over, will the same people decrying the IDF point the blame at Hamas for not releasing all their remaining hostages?

    If Hamas care about their people (we know they dont), they have the foundation of a truce that can last 25 days.



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    #21356
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401305#Comment_121401305

    What are your hopes for the 2000 Palestinians held without charge in Israeli Prisons?



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    #21357
    RobbieV
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401133#Comment_121401133

    Social democrats are a fringe party at best.

    No mandate, no power, no relevance.

    The war continues until Hamas are defeated and their infrastructure is tunnels, weapons, bomb making facilities etc are destroyed.

    Simple as



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    #21358
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401318#Comment_121401318

    If Hamas care about their people (we know they dont), they have the foundation of a truce that can last 25 days.

    You're letting the mask slip now. Your reference to the foundation of a truce that could last 25 days implies that all hostages be released.

    But if all hostages are released, then why would there be a reignition of attacks by Israel?

    Would it not mean that they would stop, given we've been told they've only been attacking Gaza to bring about the release of the hostages.



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    #21359
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401325#Comment_121401325

    So, there wasnt a plan to release all the hostages?

    Thought as much.



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    #21360
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401334#Comment_121401334

    But if all hostages are released, then why would there be a reignition of attacks by Israel?

    Would it not mean that they would stop, given we've been told they've only been attacking Gaza to bring about the release of the hostages.


    The IDF have been attacking Gaza to try and destroy Hamas. Israel have been clear on that since day one, so I dont know where you are getting the above from.



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    #21361
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,564 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401386#Comment_121401386

    I've been getting it from one of the most pro-Israel accounts on this thread. Lets see what they say.

    What are your hopes for the 2000 Palestinians held without charge in Israeli Prisons?



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