Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

The why should be obvious, some randomer on the internet is suggesting that the reason people are in unions are for the good of everyone else. Which is patently untrue as you've said yourself.

You brought the term to the thread. I don't have an issue with some stranger on the internet using it as a derogatory term towards me to be honest, I've been called worse.

The attitude of a few on this thread in relation to the insinuation that those who voted for pay rises voted to make themselves poorer, voted for a paycut or somehow shot themselves in the foot is just plain annoying at the very least.

Fair enough. I did indeed.

EVERYONE is in a union for their own interest, NOT that of others in the union and this has always been the case.

The fact that collective bargaining is one of the main reasons for a Union in the first instance doesn't mean that members are in it for any other reason than themselves.

This has ALWAYS been the case.

The high horse attitude is strong here......

Explain that one to me...because as far as I'm concerned if there's no one to represent you in the room you will definitely be rode without a saddle till the sun goes down....now it could still happen but at least the chances aren't 100%

That to me is just the reality of the human condition ....I would be interested to hear how you think the increases would be the same either way?....do you think the unions are completely controlled by the Govt or something?

Thatcherite utter rubbish

We all pay taxes.

Private sector cannot generate wealth without a nation state, law and order, education system... Just because the societal benefits provided by the public sector don't (usually) appear on a profit and loss statement doesn't mean they don't exist.

You're right, it's a complete BS argument with no basis whatsoever in reality. Without a union, the only weapon an employee has is to resign. If your career has no private sector equivalent, how's that supposed to work?

On an individualised basis - thats not true as I have displayed above.

I didn't make myself poorer by accepting a percentage increase in my base salary.

Say someone was earning 40K a year in the public sector. They move to a job in the private sector paying 41K a year. (Sectors are irrelevant here)

Would you look at them and tell them - well done mate, you've made yourself poorer......

Nobody can comment on any one specific person. Inflation may not have had a particularly big effect on you or any one specific person e.g. a child moves out of home, the cost of living goes up, but that person is better off then before because they now have more disposable income. However, in this example, there are two variables which isn't the point people are making. IF inflation was 0%, you would have had even more disposable income. Thats the point.

When taking about inflation, its easier to talk about the average person. On average, if a person receives a 5% pay rise but inflation is 7%, the average person sees a 2% decrease in their pay. If they move up a point on the scale, this may offset the 2% but again, that is a second variable. As you move up the scale, you expect your salary to increase in comparison to the cost of living.

For every example of you, there is likely someone in the exact opposite situation who has increased liabilities and inflation has further eroded their pay packet. Hence, talking about any one particularly person doesn't make sense. The average worker is what pay deals are about and the Unions may choose to target specific groups on top of that because inflation inequality is also a thing.

I agree with your point on voting in your own interests with regards any pay deal. If its good for you, why wouldn't you? I have echo'd the same opinion on this thread. People join Unions because it is in their interest. Collective bargaining is in individuals interest so we all join to make it every stronger. There is no "we are in this together" attitude.

The strong likelihood is that the take home pay of the private sector worker is more than the public sector worker (when pension, “additional” pension etc are included)

There are advantages to working in the public sector. Most of them aren’t financial. Most people understand this, and plenty are willing to accept some compromise here.

I’ve also enjoyed some of the more militant members on here backing Union membership when they themselves have argued the 90% who voted for the last deal were idiots.

I’ve similarly enjoyed the people who still think all public servants have golden pensions and should be paid the lowest possible salary.

Bullshit.

I am one of those comfortable older workers, only a few years left until I will be retiring, and I'm not voting for these deals.

I'm the one here advocating for the lower paid, while folks like yourself couldn't give a crap about anyone else.

It's easy to point the finger at older staff when it's clearly the new breed the likes of which are posting here who don't have the same tenacity to stand up and take industrial action when it's needed, who are voting these deals in.

You are an outlier - the facts back that up - the world has changed and while you might suggest you are fighting for the lower paid worker I doub't very much that's the case in reality.

Sure, Jan.

I am not saying that they aren't.

I am just pointing out the flaws in what some people are saying.

In fairnes Dodge summed it up far better than I can/could.

The people who backed the last deal were too compliant, and just accepted what scraps were thrown at them without any real fight for more.

The Unions clearly do need new membership, or else this pattern will just continue.

Even I know it's a foregone conclusion at this point that another crap deal will be offered, and will be accepted, because "no one wants to stand on a picket in January".

Why would hell would the government offer anything better, when they know this?

I'll say one thing for Gardai, Nurses, Teachers - at least when it comes to industrial action, they openly support each other. The Civil Service? You're on your own, mate.