Republic of Ireland Team 2023/24 [old thread]

The first order of business for a new manager is keeping clean sheets. Establish a solid base, be aggressive off the ball and focus on squeezing space and being compact.

Then we can worry about the rest.

We’ve been shambolic at the basics under Kenny.

Up to the middle of this year Kenny didn’t pick Hendrick in one competitive squad he was available for. He literally picked him every chance he could for a competitive game apart from Bulgaria at home .

Hourihane unfortunately is one of the worst players I’ve ever seen play for Ireland in my 30 years watching the team and he was got picked for every squad under Kenny (for which he was fit) up to the end of last year. when he cost us a goal vs Armenia at the end of 2022 he was eventually dispensed with.

Bazunu only got picked after Randolph got injured and kelleher was injured at the same time.

kenny brought through loads of kids. Just leave it at that.

The Kenny picked kids myth is one of the most hilariously false straws to clutch.

He generally just picked the best available. It just happened a lot of the previous generation finished around the same time so a younger set of players came in. There was no great revolution he just picked the best available. You'd swear he actually made some big moves. He kept most of the old guard that hadn't retired, or become glorified bench mascots.

Because they were 14-16 when McCarthy was manager. You do realise people get older as each year passes?

There is literally no mention of Mick or O'Neil in the post you quoted - what have they got to do with it?

The point is that the one benefit Kenny has brought is that he's given substantial caps to young players. I think many of those players would still have been given caps if those previous managers had been in the dugout, but I don't think that anywhere near as many would have so many caps now. He put real trust in lads like Bazunu, Collins, Molumby, Idah and Knight - probably too much trust in some of them to be honest, but that will stand to the next manager. As all those ex-pros say, it takes 20 caps before you're really settled into international football, and we've a lot more around that area than we might otherwise have had. Obviously everything else has been a washout, but that's a silver lining.

I was listening last night to the conversation Dunphy had with John Giles, and I found their lack of knowledge astounding. I’ll give Giles a bit of a pass since he doesn’t live here (he didn’t know that kids can’t goo the UK at 15 anymore since Brexit) 1In talking about academy’s etc, Dunphy didn’t acknowledge at all the good work being done by some LOI clubs academies, e.g Pats. I doubt if Dunphy knows who Sam Curtis is either, or James Abankwah, while he was lamenting the fact that the English system is closed to u18’s now, and suggesting kids could go to Europe instead. Of coursePats sold Abankwah to Udinese, and Sam Curtis is likely to leave this winter when he turns 18. LOI clubs and their academies needs be supported.

But your point is wrong and has been shown up as factually incorrect.

kenny gave loads of young lads caps because there were young lads to cap.

mccarthy gave debuts to Josh Cullen, Aaron Connolly, Lee O’Connor, Troy parrott, mark travers and Jack Byrne in the course of his year. McCarthy (and O’Neill) gave debuts to lads that have never played for Kenny. He tried. I don’t think you realise Kenny was blessed with loads of young talents players coming through at one time that we hadn’t had in such numbers ever before.

kenny deserves credit for calling in Ogbene when he was not someone who was being talked about. He deserves credit for getting mikey Johnston to declare for Ireland.

but this is a total lie that he took out all the elder players. He put enda Stevens out against the French this year ffs.

Ireland for a long time under Trapp and MON had an issue with lads not getting gametime until they were 23/24, meaning that by the time they were settled in the team they were gone a few years later.

If nothing else, at least we now have a squad who are used to international football at a young age, who will be available, and improving, for the long haul

Mick gave out a few caps in meaningless games, but he didn't ever actually integrate or really put any faith into any of those lads to make a spot their own. I think that's the difference.

You mention 6 players there that Mick capped - how many competitive starts did they get between the 6 of them? One. One start, for Connolly against Switzerland. And that's it.... so it's very hard to try to equate the way Mick and Kenny brought in young players, as it's just night and day in how it was done, and how useful it is for the future.

That's grand - but the point is that some people are trying to claim that Mick did just as much for young players as Kenny did, which is clearly evidently untrue. Mick handed out a few meaningless caps but didn't integrate anyone, while Kenny actually did. Circumstances were different, and Mick had more senior players to work with, but that doesn't make the claim that he did as much as Kenny in this area any less false.

As for Connolly, Mick was nearly lynched when he didn't start him against Georgia in the 0-0 draw (a week after Connolly had put two past Spurs), so it was huge public pressure as much as anything that make him give Connolly that one and only start in the next game a few days later. Honestly, I really don't blame him, he was tasked with a very short term role and goal, and perhaps rightly couldn't give a toss about the young players when it came to real games. So I don't even think it's particularly a slight on him to say he didn't do anywhere near as much as Kenny in developing young players - but he definitely didn't.

Yeah, he particularly actually went back to some of the older lads after moving them away from starting positions for a while - it looked like Cullen, Knight and Molumby was our nailed on midfield 3 for a while there during the WC campaign.

I get that instinct to bring the auld lads back in too, while the kids were talented enough, there was too many of them and we really lacked that battle hardened experience of a few older heads in the middle of the park - like you see with Greece, where they're all in the late-20s sort of age and just so much toughened and composed as a result. But unfortunately the auld lads Kenny went back to are all just rubbish, and even more meek than the kids so it didn't help at all. I do think it's accurate to say that the kids would've been introduced much slower under someone else though - particularly in midfield (Mick's last midfield in Euros qualifying was Hourihane, Whelan, and Hendrick - Kenny's first midfield of WC qualifying was Cullen, Molumby, and Brown). But the overall transition from old to young wasn't as clean and immediate a split as some make out.

Doubtful if there will be anybody appointed until February,FAI won't want to pay 3/4 months wages with no games

He’s listed at 33/1.

Like who? Who did they ignore? What young players didn’t they pick ahead of Doherty, Egan, Cullen etc??

It's not the answer really.

Basically there was a lost generation from I think around 1992-1998 (willing to be corrected on the years) of players that weren't good enough to play international football.

Not Mick or Martins fault that a generation of players weren't up to standard.

That fault lies squarely at the FAI.

Our past success relied heavily on second and third generation Irish players and with that tap largely dried up it shows the faults of the FAIs development of young players.

We can't be surprised by the lack of talent coming through. We are near the bottom of the table for full time academy coaches in Europe, its largely well meaning volunteers giving up their time for the love of the game.

Just heard one of the off the ball lads say you wouldnt know how good Evan Ferguson is if you just saw him play for Ireland because he hasnt done anything for us. very harsh on him I think, he has just turned 19 and his Irish teammates cant get the ball to him, that is not his fault.

Ogbene with a quality assist. Another clean sheet goes awry for bazunu. Bazunu might cop some blame but it’s a cross that just goes all the way in. Not really much he could do

Watched the full game and Ogbene was quality.

I see Andrew Moran got his first Championship goal today and also an assist. Seems to be a fruitful loan move for him so far. Where do people who know better than me see his best position in an Ireland team?

Also, Szmodics scored again and is still top goal scorer in the Championship.

That was because the players getting picked were better than them at that time?

Same reason Kenny "largely ignored" Danny McNamara, Eiran Cashin, Festy Ebosele, Andrew Moran, Luke McNally etc. etc.

They were 15/16/17 under Mick ffs. Hardly ignored. Why wasn’t Kenny playing Vata? Zefi? Heffernan? Why “ignore” such talent?

Be interesting to see if Kelleher or Adrian starts now

No sign of the injury I'm guessing?