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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,705 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Bill Maher is a conservative now, hmm , right.

    His latest video is extremely apt and funny, perhaps people should take note especially at 1 minute 40 seconds.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The entire meaning of "Conservative" or "Liberal" etc. has been utterly upended and shattered in America over the last number of years.

    The current GOP and it's followers are not conservatives in the way that we might have thought about the meaning of that term 20 years ago.

    Equally what is described as "Liberal" or indeed "Left wing" in the US bears no resemblance to what those terms mean anywhere else.

    An actual conservative is someone who values low risk fiscal responsibility (don't borrow too much , spend only what you have , save for a rainy day etc.) and who values tradition and respect for authority and for others. They are actually capable of disagreeing with people without feeling the need to destroy them.

    The current GOP are populist authoritarians with a healthy dose of Religious extremism blended in and they have absolutely NOTHING in common with actual conservative values.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I would argue that the current GOP is the perfect embodiment of conservatism, that is to say conservatism without the facade or pretences. To put it better, conservatism in its purest form.

    Here in the UK, towards the end of the nineteenth century, we saw the development of One Nation Conservatism, the father of which was Benjamin Disraeli. Disraeli was a prolific writer who felt that the wealthy had a moral duty towards the poorer people of the country. The United States has never had anything like this. It was essentially founded on the principle that wealthy white men should be able to do as they please, without consequences.

    Conservatism exists to preserve power, wealth and influence in the elite, what would have been the nobility in pre-nineteenth century Europe. Nowadays, they're a crowd of posh lads who have gotten ahead via family connections and inherited wealth. They judge themselves to be an upper caste who should have exclusive control of the country. Historically, they'd have been somewhat competent as stability, security and growth are things worth attaining.

    Not so now. They've become decadent, shrill ladbabies who are incapable of recognising the simple truth that anyone without wealth has no incentive to vote conservative. Sure, you've plenty of people in the rustbelt with racist views who'll cheer loudly for the rapist and the rules have been bent to ensure conservative victories in some states. 

    This is what American Conservatism is. Racism and unearned privileges. They fought to maintain slavery and they'll fight to retain their status now with the same ferociosity albeit on social media and cable news. They'd do the same to the working class if they didn't need the votes.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You'll have to go back further than just 20 years ago. 20 years ago many so called "Conservatives" were the Neo-Cons. Mockingly referred to, in places like Capitol Hill, as the "Nutzis". Little did anyone know what was to follow was Trump and his own brand of Nutzi, although I still think that Bush Jr. and his handlers were worse by a certain margin because of events that unfolded during his administration. That doesn't give Trump any excuses, though. and he and his lot are certainly more of an unpredictable, wild card, nature.

    Noam Chomsky is correct in his assertion that there's really no such thing as a Conservative in American political circles any more. Republicans have lurched so far to the right that they've become extremist Statists. The Democrats, too, have leaned more and more to the right and both are conservative entities beholden to the business world's needs over that of the average citizen.

    But while each party used to be a slightly different faction of the "Business Party", since the Regan era the Republicans have gradually morphed into what The American Enterprise Institute has called a "...radical insurgency that has abandoned any interest in parliamentary politics..."

    In fact, Chomsky has said that current "conservative" politicking goes back as far as Nixon who understood that the Republican Party can't win elections on their own programs. Programs that will naturally empower the corporate sector over the ordinary man in the street. So they have to conjure up other issues to rally their support. So called "cultural issues", like the Southern Strategy of the late 60's that Nixon's politicos came up with or appealing to the anti-abortion positions of evangelical Christians and northern Catholics during the 70's. This continues to this day in the form of empty "anti-woke" tub thumping, whatever that happens to be at a given time and the "anti-woke" thing allows for an incredibly elastic array of "issues" that politicians can rile people up with.

    As for the "Left Wing", such a thing also doesn't exist in the US. Being a "Liberal" (in the US meaning) is not the same thing as being on the left wing of political views. There are many US Liberals who wouldn't be able to form a genuine left wing political opinion even if their lives depended on it. Being a Liberal in the US isn't anywhere near to a European left winger. It's not even the same thing as being a Liberal in the UK.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That is perhaps the massive difference between "conservative" and "Conservative".

    Big C conservative is all the things you describe whereas Small c conservative isn't actually all that bad.

    A bit dull , a bit boring and more than a little staid but not hateful and destructive and certainly not hell bent on enforcing obedience and subjugation on everyone else.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I always use the small c as it's an ideology I no longer respect. To be clear, I was referring to what you're calling "Big C conservative".

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    I must say, all this pussyfooting around in the US courts about Trump and these gag orders is a bit of a joke. Trump is a criminal defendant running a political campaign, not a political campaigner that's being inconvenienced by being a criminal defendant. The stuff he's saying about the judicial system and people that are potential witnesses in his upcoming trials would land anyone in prison, and he should be no different. As usual, he's being allowed to trample all over the system to his own benefit with no consequences. Give him a few nights in jail to think about things, just like would've happened to anyone else at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,714 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Even if Trump went to jail, he'd get the cushiest jail stay you can get, possibly in his own wing with his own staff detail. It wouldn't be the being in jail bit that would hurt Trump, but rather losing access to social media. Then again, would he get phone calls? If yes, he'll one hundred percent be using those to dictate Truth Social posts.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Trump's not going to jail. Not a chance. Not in the USA. He might get home arrest but that'll be it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,283 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Someone finally convicted of voted fraud, I'm sure tucker (and his acolytes here) will be ecstatic

    https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4322071-iowa-officials-wife-found-guilty-voter-fraud/



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,360 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    During opening statements, Taylor’s defense attorney, F. Montgomery Brown, said the case comes down to a “bias virus” due to bad blood between Jeremy Taylor, who is a Republican, and the Woodbury County Auditor and Election Commissioner Pat Gill. Gill is the only Democrat who holds a public office in Woodbury County. He was the one who alerted authorities about the alleged fraud.

    Ah, but they are using the Trump 'if you don't count cases there isn't any covid' argument. Of course a Democrat was going to shop him. And anyway they were all Vietnamese votes, which would have been wasted anyway.

    https://www.iowapublicradio.org/ipr-news/2023-11-21/woodbury-county-supervisors-wife-found-guilty-of-52-counts-of-voter-fraud



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The funny part for me is that even after committing electoral fraud her husband still only finished 3rd in the primary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,551 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson




  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭Stanley 1


    Let him spend the first couple of nights in his old mate's cell, Jeffrey Epstein, that should put some manners on him and if not let him stay the week, leave some extra blankets and sheets.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Yet another classy Thanksgiving message from Trump on "Truth" Social

    Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY.

    And he wonders why Prosecutors want gag orders?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭randd1


    How anyone can look at that and not see a deranged lunatic is beyond me.

    What is amazing, is that there's tens of millions in the US who genuinely believe it. And that's he's very likely to be the President again next year.

    America; the world's first idiocracy. Enjoy the show, it should be mental.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,536 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Jokes aside, I think it's down to the fact that there are no consequences for a lot of things any more. Covid is the perfect example. Taking the vaccine protected against the worst of the disease in a very safe way but many people refused it. Instead of leaving the unvaccinated to their fate, we gave them healthcare as we should have. Forcing them to face the consequences would eliminate anti-vaxx sentiment very quickly but it would of course be unethical.

    People can vote for Trump knowing that Muslims, black people, the trans community and others will be the ones to face the consequences of Trump's corruption, his racism and his cruelty.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,605 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Maybe it's a coded message. If you take all the capitalised words, it could become:

    "ALL FLOURISH FLEE ME! PROOF? WEAPONISED HELL! RINOS DESTROY OUR COUNTRY!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,714 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Another day, another deranged and vengeful word salad.

    His supporters are loving it, of course. It's the Dark MAGA they always wanted.

    If nothing else, it's been interesting to watch the former American conservative movement get distilled further and further into what it has been threatening to be ever since the election of Obama, the rise of the Tea Party and proliferation of insane disinformation on Facebook, notably starting with the birther conspiracy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    I see that The Chump must be doing a new line in wigs given that the lunatic that has done well in Holland is sporting one today !!




  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭mikefromcork


    purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction

    You'd think he'd shy away from that word



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,573 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    "The winning of an election is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. .."





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,192 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Does that post from Trump not breach the gag order? And naming the chief clerk again as a dog whistle for his supporters to give her more abuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Gag order is stayed (or ineffective) until the appeal is heard



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    What are they appealing based on? That he's such a sane person who'd never say anything inflammatory, or name individuals such that his supporters would be tempted to head out and attack people... Hmmm... Think he's nailed his defence perfectly there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But also because Trump believes he is special and keeps using this line about "As President , I can do whatever I want and because I do it , it's legal"

    He genuinely believes that he should be above the law just because.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,360 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    And at the moment it is working to a large extent. They cannot stop him abusing court personnel and witnesses, at the same time they can't stop his side-kick Floyde also posting abusive stuff, because to jail him and not Trump would cause even more problems. Presumably if the appeal is allowed it will leave the door open to any defendants doing anything they want in terms of abusing and threatening witnesses. If it is not allowed they will have to make a hard decision on how to deal with Trump when he breaks the gag order again, which he will.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,414 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Trump supporters here - 'they were saying "Boo-urns!" '



This discussion has been closed.
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