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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not remarkable is the dream for a conservative PM. The remarkable ones are usually remarkable for all the wrong reasons.

    Cameron sold himself as one of the unremarkable ones and could have gotten away with it if he just copped on with the referenda.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There was a standing joke about John Major whose father worked in some element of touring entertainment. Major began work in banking in some accounting job.

    The joke was that Major was the only person ever who ran away from the circus to become an accountant. Also, Spitting Image portrayed him as a totally grey puppet that wore his grey underpants outside his grey trousers.

    [Of course, they were unaware of his liking for Curry when working late in the office!]



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They had his grey character having an affair with Virginia Bottomley; on the basis that he was far far too boring to have an affair and they had to make up a fake affair with a cabinet member

    They just picked the wrong one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Speaking of affairs with PMs I read an interview today with Dorries about her new book "The Plot" which not only lays bare in her own words how far down the rabbit hole she is in terms of conspiracy to "control government" but also her schoolgirl boyband crush level of obsession with Johnson.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I think the wearing of y-fronts on the outside was Steve Bell cartoons rather than spitting image..



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    You could be right. Spitting Image was very cruel, as was Steve Bell.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    There's a wonderful Acropolis museum in Athens with sculptures from Parthenon. I bring this up because I was there recently and there have been some very lukewarm sounds from Starmer and George Osborne who is the current Chair of the British Museum about a return. Nothing dramatic but it's an improvement on previous obstinacy.

    However, Sunak has churlishly cancelled a meeting at the last minute with Kyriakos Mitsotakis, Greece's Prime Minister.


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,473 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I was there recently back in April '22 and yeah, it's a great museum and it's astonishing just how many artefacts are there beyond the marbles; and our guide never missed an opportunity to get a dig in at the British over their possession of the marbles. It's obviously still a very sore point for Greeks and the Brits' continued abstinence becomes more untenable as other major museums have grappled with their own "stolen" materials - especially those from Africa.

    Jesus but that line of questions from Kuenssberg is just something else. I think asked with a degree of playfulness to be fair, but it shows that sense of ... arrogance? Presumption? That Kuenssberg would ask a question like that thinking hoho, it's all a wheeze, isn't it? The Greek PM handled it very well, but obviously noses were put out of joint in Number 10, pack of cowards that they are. It's insane this continues to be a minor controversy, that a cohort of British demographics think they have a "right" to keep these marbles

    Worth pointing out we've had our own smaller issues with the British Museum: what was the largest telescope in the world for 70 years still sits at Birr Castle - albeit without the reflecting dish of bronze(?) they used. The castle had asked the British Museum to return the original bronze so they could restore the telescope to function - but sure enough, the museum said "no". Now when I visited - which admittedly must be 15+ years ago now, yikes - they said a new dish would be cast, which of course was gonna be expensive and take a lot of time. Subsequently I have seen the dish in the British Museum, sitting on a stand with a tiny bit of context - broadly meaningless among the other items.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,994 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Off topic but they really need to treat that telescope @ Birr much better, it sits there pretty unloved tbh. (Well 2 years ago it was, maybe it's more cherished now)

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The BM will not return anything on principle as they don't want the floodgates of requests opening. It doesn't matter how meaningless it is to them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I generally have no problem with a museum keeping foreign artifacts but the Parthenon marbles are actually shte in their current location and make no sense in the British Museum. Just a few totally out of context bits of sculpture in a plain room.

    Also unlike objects from Ireland for example these are not ancient spoils of war but stuff taken "for safe keeping" in the 20th century.

    As well as the marbles British Heritage also got attacked by the "anti woke" snowflakes recently when an internal only calendar was leaked to the press because it included all the religious holidays except Christmas. The calendar was designed for management to make them aware of holiday's they might not know about hence why Christmas which all the museum's are closed for was deemed unnecessary. The abuse the customer service people have been receiving has sadly been unrelenting.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's a phenomenal museum. I don't think it was that expensive either. I did it by myself though I cackled loudly at the film explaining how Elgin stole the things. The British Museum has its own version of events. I didn't see the Laura K interview as I was on the way to work and only mentioned this because it's escalated. I mentioned that we had our own issues with the British Museum to a Cypriot colleague only to have to explain to her that I'm Irish and that Ireland is a separate country. This might explain why my job applications have all ended up in Dutch e-bins though. I've been advised to try my parents' address so that might help. The Museum only displays 8,000 out of 88,000 objects so the telescope being displayed like that is a bit jarring.

    David Cameron said that if the Museum returned stolen goods, there'd be nothing left. This was during the coalition years so social media wasn't what it is now but he admitted a lot in that statement.

    I think they should go back but I've other priorities here. I like how they're presented and I like that it takes me less than an hour door-to-door to go see them. That said, I think they should go back.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    British Museum is free as are many of the national museums. It's an amazing public service, especially when you are broke in London as I often was.

    Was always surprised all that "artsy fartsy stuff" and it's funding didn't come under more attack. Probably a lot to do with it being the darling of the retired "Mrs. Bucket" types.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭rock22


    I did see the kyriakos Mitsotakis interview of with Laura Kuenssberg . The Greek PM was very conciliatory. He didn't demand the return of the marbles but rather he suggested a partnership with the British Museum. I don't think he at any stage called them "our marbles". So I am very surprised to see the meeting cancelled, at least on the basis of that interview.

    As I said in another thread, I think the UK are making no effort at reproachment with EU leaders.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is a simple-ish solution.

    They return the objects on the basis that they are frequently loaned back to the BM for a period of time every so often. The BM agrees to keep them in prime condition and use their expertise in restoration if required. It would be at the call of the BM as what is to be loaned to them (but that might be not accepted by all the parties involved).

    Now assuming the 8,000 on display of 88,000 artefacts, that would work well for the BM. Assuming that the BM have some choice in the items they want to display 'on loan', then they have a full museum of interesting items.

    The Hugh Lane painting collection works this way - part time in London and part time in Dublin..



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,860 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Not even Maggie Thatcher got around to privatising British Rail though, Major did and it has naturally been an extremely expensive disaster for both the travelling public and the taxpayer. It's cost quite a number of them their lives.

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I meant the Acropolis museum when I was talking about cost. Funny you mention Mrs. Bucket. I just started watching that series as I missed it growing up.

    That's nice. Osborne and Starmer have made conciliatory statements as well. Would be wonderful is some kind of partnership could be agreed.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ah my mistake.

    My friend works in the membership department of Museum's Association in the UK and she says it's nothing but Mrs. Buckets with too much time on their hands writing angry letters about tiny banal "problems". The kind of people who write to opinion pages in newspapers using over the top language that they think makes them sound oh so intelligent.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's profoundly depressing.

    I think museums are seen as "high" culture so cutting them was never on the agenda. I love Museums and the ones here are the best I've ever seen. It's sad that some people can't appreciate that. I vaguely remember an episode of Yes, Minister about Opera funding and football clubs. A lot of this country's elite are classicists by education and they'd consider it sacrilege to cut museum funding.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It just goes to show how the anger of "the ordinary working people" is led and controlled by the posh elite.

    A certain cohort of society can get whipped into a frenzy very easily when it's "excessive" government spending that it suits the rich to get rid of. These museums will also never be subject to council funding like all the libraries and community centres that the posh don't need.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    A friend once told me museums are funded by council tax. Looks like that's wrong.

    There's never questions of finding money for bombing raids on Syria or refurbishing Westminster. If a poor person smokes a joint, it's terrible but nobody bats an eyelid at investment bankers snorting lines. Class is so ingrained here, it's unreal.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,617 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    What's deeply worrying is that Sunak cancelled, apparently at short notice, the meeting with another PM. They can claim it is about the marbles, but as the Greek PM stated in his reply to the cancellation, being afraid to talk about something usually means you don't have much of an argument.

    But apart from the marbles, are the UK now in such a place that other sovereign countries, can't even express themselves without the UK taking offence? This bastion of free speech and democracy now refuses to talk to anybody that even mildly upsets them?

    This looks very poor from Sunak. Have the meeting, and tell the Greek PM that there is no way the marbles are going back but happy to take his concerns on board. Then smile for the cameras



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He's just weak though. He's always been spineless and malleable but now it just looks like he's lazy to boot. I think he's just counting the days until he can move to California to be a techbro.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The local "Museum of Croydon" or whatever would be but not the national museums and not the "darling of the upper middle class" stately homes.

    He is an absolute nothing of a PM. He will be remembered (or not remembered) the same way as Brian Cowen who often just seems to be completely forgotten when people are talking about modern Taoisigh.

    Even the impending Tory downfall will be linked to Johnson in peoples minds when looking back in 20/30 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I see him as an undertaker. His job is to guide the corpse that is the current parliamentary Conservative party to the next election where it'll finally be cremated. The rebuild will be carried out by the next leader of the party.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,307 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    I think you're an election or two early on the rebuild part; we need at least one or two more headbangers "because the previous PM was not strong enough to do what was needed" and they need time to fail before we can get an actual leader to rebuild.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The fact is that he's only PM because he was Chancellor and because Liz Truss wiped out 50 billion pounds from the Treasury. He was only Chancellor because Sajid Javid didn't want to be Dominic Cummings' puppet.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,197 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I watched that Laura Kuenssberg 3-part documentary, State of Chaos, last week (It's on Youtube if anyone is interested - well worth a watch). Javid came across exceptionally well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,278 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It wasn't for want of trying though. Privatisation of rail was a Tory dream since before Thatcher. Major was just fulfilling the contract as it were. But I don't think any of them foresaw the likes of Potters Bar and whatnot. The Tories are just wedded to privatisation despite all the obvious drawbacks. It's in their DNA.

    Don't get me wrong, It's not like I'd be a fan of John Major. He is in many ways the continuation of the Neo-Liberal disaster that sparked off during the Reagan/Thatcher years. But in comparison to what the Tories are now, he'd practically be a godsend. Laissez faire twats like Boris Johnson or viscous, nasty, cunts like Braverman or Patel are an outright danger to the entire nation. And they won't give a damn about the damage they'll leave behind for Labour to try an clean up.

    Speaking of rail, a few years ago they were actually talking about re nationalising the whole system again. That must have got swept away by Covid too. There are a number of nationalised services in place already, so maybe under Starmer they'll just put the entirety back into public hands and be done with the whole farce.

    I doubt it though. Starmer is just another Blairite. A Tory in Labour clothing and I've no faith that his tenure will be anything but business as usual with a few minor twists.

    What the majority of British public need right now is a Clement Attlee type PM and government.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Blair only looks like business as usual from the outside though and I reckon the same with Starmer.

    Cameron absolutely gutted local services, councils and the NHS which Labour dont and won't do.



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