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SCEP Scheme

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Comments

  • #362
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Ah lads. My cows have dropped big time. Some gone from 4 to 2 stars. Has this to do with cow weights or what? I wouldn't mind, but my cows were bred to be maternal in the first place. The worst animal I have here, a heifer, is now my best according to ICBF. I give up.

    I see they've added a TB contribution now and seem to have gone heavy on docility too.

    Post edited by patsy_mccabe on

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #363
    ABitofsense
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    Looking at LM bulls, serious cut in replacement on a good few bulls in my tank. Cerberus 1 star replacement now! Ampertine Magnum 4 star to 2 Star. I've used these bulls for spring 24 so I'll already breeding 3 star heifers where they would have been 5 when I used them.

    Ridiculous changes!



  • #364
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I can't complain, my best cow has gone over 200 points. Bull I bought this summer went up 17 points. Had a BA bull that was bought as a terminal sire and I kept a few of his daughters after a tb outbreak, he dropped from -42 to -73, can't argue with that. Looks to me that strong maternal traits have gone up and bad ones have got worse. I wouldn't like to be a pedigree breeder.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #365
    Diarmuid B
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Diarmuid B


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429868#Comment_121429868

    I’m in the same boat. Predominantly shx six and aax cross animals here and all bar 2 went up in points.



  • #366
    893bet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,058 ✭✭✭893bet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429432#Comment_121429432

    is there an easy way to see the changes on each animal?



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  • #367
    tanko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭tanko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429977#Comment_121429977

    Look at evaluation history tab.



  • #368
    Ladeeen
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Ladeeen


    click into individual animal and then click Evaluation History



  • #369
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429868#Comment_121429868

    Have a Madison heifer who is + for milk, - on daughter calving interval and low on calving difficulty (which is what I’m looking for) dropped from €93 to €38



  • #370
    893bet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,058 ✭✭✭893bet


    LM2117 is gone from 4 to 3 for terminal (already a 1 star for replacement)…. 70 percent my cows in calf to him….lovely….that’s the end of him. Nice calves, very vigour which I like.



  • #371
    TPF2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭TPF2012


    Looking at bulls that have gone down, some seem to be dragged down with this new TB index.



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  • #372
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Has anyone figured the new indexes out? I found the following from the link below but can't find how the € values are calculated.

    They keep changing the goalposts. For example, Cow fertility made up 19% of the overall Replacement index before, now it's 15%

    TB only makes up 2%.

    PowerPoint Presentation (icbf.com)

    image.png


    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #373
    mr.stonewall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Had a good bit of a look through at the profiles on ICBF, on my herd salers and limos have taken a hit, I had on old cow drop €78, aubracs have taken a good rise

    One thing I have spotted and wondering has anyone else have similar, docility figures seem to be driving a lot of the change. I'm spotting the few with a higher negative docility rating have dropped like a stone, the ones with a high positive docility figures have risen sharply. I would be interested to see if others have experienced the same



  • #374
    charolais0153
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430646#Comment_121430646

    I reckon you’re right. CWI a bull with 98% reliability has fallen from 123 to 93 to a 3 star He would have poor docility



  • #375
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430627#Comment_121430627

    Thanks patsy, link here for anyone who wants more bedtime stories PowerPoint Presentation (icbf.com)

    AA and Hereford have done well too, I suppose MEQ is starting to count. Not sure how they worked out the whole carbon section. I suppose earlier calving and quicker finishing is reflected.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #376
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431340#Comment_121431340

    I see it’s noted that data given to bulls come from all progeny finished (in Ireland). Which is what I’ve been thinking for a while. Sires to top quality weanings exported are not getting a true evaluation



  • #377
    Mikeh22
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Mikeh22


    We kept heifers of a AI limousin Bull few years back. Stars stars stars. Worst cows we ever kept. Didn't join the scep scheme. Went back to basics. Good stock bull and not ever looking at stars again. My father said its a sad day if you have to look at a report and count stars to know which is your best animal. The farmer knows



  • #378
    tanko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭tanko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431569#Comment_121431569

    Which Ai Limousin bull was that?



  • #379
    dohc turbo2
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭dohc turbo2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431569#Comment_121431569

    I second that, I've a lovely cow here, kept as I've all red and she came white off lgl, teaasc were around one day and told me not to keep her, I did as I said I'd chance her, top cow for breeding calves, massive weights off grass, going back a few years ago I went to look at a 5 star pb lm in calf heiffer and he had two he said other is 1 star she no good to u , I said I'd try her, tbh she a better cow than the 5 star ,



  • #380
    ABitofsense
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    From looking at my small herd, it looks like all my best big (750kg+) cows have gotten cut. All my smaller cows 600-700 range have moved up. There must be a big weigh on the "carbon" stat. Nearly all of my best cows have taken a drop where these all would have a calf at 1.5kg/day+ and my best prices when i sell. I don't think docility has impacted as much as Knell has low figures but he's jumped up in the new Stars. Its actually highlighting which are my best cows more if i invert the stars!



  • #381
    Biscuitus
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Biscuitus


    All my stars gone up, many animals jumped a star in the process. Bulls I own all way up passed 5 star now. A few years ago my herd was an example of what they didn't want. Makes no sense but I'll take it.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121431569#Comment_121431569


    There are few AI Limousin bulls from the big companies that are suitable for replacements. They are all mostly terminal with milk and fertility figures way into the minus. Compared to the selection of bulls in the UK we really don't have good selection of most AI bulls.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430627#Comment_121430627


    New replacement index where they have lowered the importance of fertility, milk, calving ability and docility. There you go lads, disregard these 4 things next time you pick out replacement heifers.



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  • #382
    Fotish
    Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭Fotish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432830#Comment_121432830

    How do we know what Sire to use now ?

    I presume that the AI brochure that I use is obsolete now ?



  • #383
    Limestone Cowboy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭Limestone Cowboy


    Icbf should actually be disbanded for their carry on at this stage. Moving the goalposts again after farmers signing up to a five year scheme. There really is no sense to what they do, I try my best to record all the surveys and weights and everything accurately and its like it's completely disregarded. I sold heifers that were 3 star that are now 5 stars and the ones I kept that are 5 star are gone to 3 star and 10 year old cows that have had a calf every year since a 2yo and reared them and sold them for decent money gone from 5 star to 2 star. Useless cows that are not doing the business after getting a big jump then. Whoever came up with the formula for how it's all calculated would want to go back to school for a while.



  • #384
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I had to reweigh all my cattle today in the presence of a Dept Guy. I was afraid the cows would go nuts with a stranger about, but it went ok. Anyone else have to do this?

    I was told the reason was an administration error from 2022, I've no idea what this is.

    At least I had them all weighed right the first time.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #385
    anthony500_1
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭anthony500_1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472436#Comment_121472436

    My worst nightmare........ They seem to be doing a lot more checks for some reason, your not the first I've heard saying simmular. Was he/she at least a normal enough sorta type or did he just stand like a robot totting in numbers into his ipad?



  • #386
    893bet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,058 ✭✭✭893bet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472436#Comment_121472436

    How could reweighing now sold an error in 2022? It would be different cows and calves you have now?


    Have you your own scales?

    I know you have pedigree stock so did you have some massive weights for calves that statiscally might flag as an outlier and get them suspicious?



  • #387
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473871#Comment_121473871

    He was sound, to be fair. A major pain doing it, as I had to drive 20 miles to pick up the scales and the same to drop it off. One of those day where you wonder, is farming worth it at all.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #388
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473938#Comment_121473938

    If anything my weights are well back this year. Noting special there.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #389
    ABitofsense
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475358#Comment_121475358

    Was it part of SCEP? Or just an inspection. They check much else?

    I wouldn't like to be forcing cows up on scales this time of year. Be a pure pain. I've weighed 3 times this year so if they rang me to do it they'd get an ear full.



  • #390
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475615#Comment_121475615

    All to do with SCEP.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • #391
    ABitofsense
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    Looking at the 2024 calving section where they estimate date and replacement and terminal value. I've gone from all 5 star replacements calves to 4x 3stars now with the change. I've only a small herd so if they are all heifers, Ill be fairly caught out as I breed my own replacements when I can. Nearly all the bulls I've used for AI have dropped too.



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