Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I don't think the supporters of the israeli actions here like when stats are quoted on civilian death. In isolation these stats makes them look like supporting immoral actions.

I think there are unfortunately a fair proportion of Israelis including many currently in Govt that would see the only way of military defeating Hamas is to completely depopulate Gaza, be that by either wiping out the population or forcing them out of the region. They would argue that civilians casualties including women and children are merely an unfortunate collateral damage caused by Hamas using them as human shields. But whatever way you want to package it or whatever phraseology you want to apply (since the Israelis are so sensitive about words at the minute) it is tantamount to genocide.

Also, incidentally, since there were possibly 2000 Hamas terrorists involved in the attack on Israel on 7th Oct and initial IDF propaganda at the time seemed to claim they had killed a fair proportion of them at that time, then a return of say 1000 to 1500 additional Hamas members killed for the devestation caused to Gaza over the recent weeks military operations seems a pretty poor return, unless you concede that the primary aim of the military operation was to sate the thirst for revenge for 7th Oct, pure and simple (at least that would show honesty about the whole operation instead of getting offended by the language used by others)

And every child they murder is going to potentially convert that child's parents, siblings and friends into Hamas supporters. Assuming they haven't also wiped out every single man woman and child who knew or was related to the child in question of course, which is not a given with the way Israel has been acting.

Israel is killing multiple civilians for every militant they kill. That is a moral choice. They have chosen these methods of warfare despite the results.

I do not disagree with your last sentence.

UNGA vote result from last night, 62 countries abstained.

Maybe you could answer this:

"Israel was invaded by Hamas in an attack that specifically targeted civilians. Hamas are on record as saying that they will do the same think again as soon as they have the capability to do so. What, specifically, do you think Israel should do? Remember that Hamas are a fundamentalist Islamism terrorist organisation of the ilk of the Taliban. They have a mandate from heaved, they are required by God to do what they did and so will keep doing it as long as they can."

It's a very important point. Israel estimated that Hamas actually have up to 40,000 fighters and Islamic Jihad have another 15,000. Israel have a little over 500,000 in their armed forces and up to 1000 main battle tanks. If they wanted to they could kill everyone in Gaza before the week was over. I think the aim of the Hamas attacks was to provoke the ground offensive that we see now. They wanted as much death and destruction wrought on their own people as possible. That way opinion in the region and around the world would harden against Israel. I think that Hamas have succeeded in their aim.

Much like America in Iraq and Afghanistan there is no exit strategy for Israel that doesn't look like a loss.

I despise hamas. Is that the question? I do believe they should be destroyed but I think Israel is motivating the next generation of terrorists with the amount of civilian bodies they are dropping. Their methods are immoral.

What tunnels? The doctors in the hospitals told us there were no tunnels under the hospitals and loads of posters on here repeated that, so there are no tunnels.

Lame excuse.

It was clear that day that many in Ireland were celebrating the actions of Hamas, posting "from the river to the sea" and putting up Palestinian flags.

Denying that reality destroys your credibility.

"Could you imagine how much we would hate the Brits if they had done to us what Israel is doing to Gaza right now?"

Or how much they'd hate us if we did what Hamas did last month. Imagine if the IRA had killed 250 people at Glastonbury and another 1000 or so in their homes in the same area.

I've heard this whole subject discussed recently (about why the British by contrast didn't carpet bomb nationalist areas in NI or behave much more violently) and a suggestion was that the British still had some respect for their Irish nationalist opponents - the Israelis seem to regard Palestinians as vastly inferior.