Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It was hard last night apparently when I was asked to go and find posts. Which I did.

But we'll leave the absence of posts here as I sign that what you are claiming was in no way common by frequent posters on the thread. I've no doubt there were occasional posters posting such for effect, but that isn't the picture being painted here today or over the last couple of weeks.

There's just "the media", not mainstream media. The rest is speculation and hearsay which, if verified or deemed credible, is reported in the media.

From the article; "According to a police source, an investigation of the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there."

So when a helicopter attacks terrorists there can be collateral damage. Yes, we know that. That's what's happening in Gaza but on a larger scale.

Unless it was the Palestinians gassing the Jews in Aushwitz your point makes no sense.

The horrors inflicted upon the Jewish people by the Nazis (and all of the prior pogroms in other countries) don't give them a free pass to treat the Palestinians the way that they do.

Also a nice attempt at history but missing major context. As I said the War fostered and financed by the British in the Arabian Peninsula from the turn of the 20th Century, which resulted in mass killings, maiming's, mass displacement of people and oppression of all minorities, was to prevent the Arab state that you mentioned. The creation of Syria and Jordan as modern States predates the creation of Israel by months, and their recognition by the UN predates the recognition of Israel by those same few months. I'm sure the Hashemites would have preferred to still control most of the Persian Peninsula, just as the Egyptians always had their eye on Suez, and eventually took it. The whole enterprise was intrinsically colonial with the British in particular looking to maintain access to India through Suez and control of their Coaling Stations in the region.

Of course the Arabs in the region were against the Jews getting their land back. Why would they be in favour of it? But Partition and moving ethnic groups was the solution of the day. It was done in India, it was done in Turkey and it was done to the Jews across the Muslim world. It's the presentation of the creation of Israel as a unique event that I have a problem with, not to mention blaming the Jews alone for suffering of the Palestinian Arabs.

My issue with this debate isn't the criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza, as I think much of the criticism is warranted, rather it is the framing of the conflict as something that Israel started and then perpetuates in isolation. The only way that Israel ends this in isolation is if they decide to exterminate themselves.

The creation of Israel was a unique event. Ethnic groups were moved around, but nowhere else was there a case like Zionism who sought to move to lands outside the continent where they lived to create a a new state. Of course there was the colonial states, US, Australia, South Africa etc. Do you consider the creation of Israel to be the same story.

That is absolute nonsense. I grew up in the 80’s/90’s and there was no messaging about hating Jews… you’re reaching

Russia intends to introduce a petition to be voted on at the UNSC for a peacekeeping force to be put in place to prevent more deaths and to ensure food, energy and medical supplies to the city are delivered.

Sounds reasonable, difficult to see anyone opposed to that.

I personally didn’t see any posts supporting Hamas. If adamant they are there I would love you to quote them.

All of the above can be true. Initially there were numbers like 1400 civilians. That was changed to about 1200. Emily Hand was a victim yet she was released. People are using information that is available to them at the time. It would not surprise me that people were raped. It’s credible. I’m not disputing that. The first hostages released said “Shalom” when released from her captors which means peace. She mentioned she got the medical treatment she needed. No hostage has been treated very well. They should never have been hostages in the first place.

I firmly believe that Israel are not and should not be viewed as beacons of truth. They have proven that previously and by their ongoing actions. And to question that does not make one a Hamas supporter.

No it's not unique, there were always Jews in Palestine and in the Middle East. Lots of them. Hundreds of thousands moved to Israel from within Asia. What is unique is that an ethnic group that was dispossessed, by colonialism, for over a thousand years maintained its ethnic identity and religion and returned to its homeland.

Plenty of Muslims and Hindus moved vast distances when India was partitioned. They also moved within Asia, but the distance moved is irrelevant to the discussion.

I grew up in the 50s and 50s, and we were not taught to hate Jews, either at school, or in church or at home. At Easter, the story of Christ's trial and crucifixion inevitably had a not-too-nice role for the Jewish high priests, but that was not carried over into some sort of inherited giuilt of later generations.

Much has been made of the failure of Pius XII to act to save Jews, but there re other widely-attested example of very heroic acts such as those of Mgo O'Flaherty in the Vatican. My only nasty moment in all this unfortunate history was when an elderly relative of strong Republican background sais to me sometime around 1960 that the Holocost was a piece of British propaganda: my brother was told the same piece of nonsense, so it was not something imagined.

I don't have the exact source, but some recent work on the social history of late 19th and early 20th century Dublin Jews indicated relatively little anti-semitism. The Limerick "pogrom" was somewhat exceptional.

Noted. Maybe it was just the way you worded it.