Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Which post?

You guys are going to have to learn that just responding to me and claiming I am wrong, does not make it so.

Immigration to Palestine prior to WW1 was blocked by Ottoman policy. The Jewish population of the area in 1900 was about 4%, Christians about 11% and the rest Moslems or "Ottomans" per the census.

You can't keep your story straight.

This is what you wrote earlier on the thread:

That post, is another piece of evidence, and there have been many, that show that Hamas have been treating the hostages in a much more humane way than the media and Israel/US said they would.

the evidence of how Israeli hostages have been treated is close to 100% the opposite of how Israel said they would be treated. And it is another piece of evidence to show how the narrative that Israel is trying to present is consistently flawed. That's just a simple fact.

Now it is is

"I'm not at all surprised that some hostages have reported being treated poorly."

When earlier you were dismissive of the possibility of the hostages speaking under duress, or speaking publicly out of concern for unreleased hostages.

Talking of how released hostages seem to you are not facts. Those are your comments on events. You are misrepresenting your interpretation of the footage as a fact. It is no such thing. It is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Then you double down on the error in your post, by jumping from that non-fact to declare another non-fact about the Israeli narrative.

I think posters can judge for themselves the reliability of your posts on the subject of hostage treatment, or what you declare to be 'facts'.

Being beaten with electrical cables is "being treated poorly" ???

Poorly?

Being beaten with electrical cables is being treated in a humane way is it?

And is that a fact? Or is it only a fact that it has been reported?

And note the phrasing "reported poorly".

But when someone queries whether footage of an reported incident is verified as being from the current conflict, they have a "strange mind".

Speaks volumes about the double standards demonstrated in the posts, your opinions are declared as facts.

Yes it was but they still arrived there. Look at the link you posted. The influx of Zionist money and technology increased living standards in the region and caused a high level of inward migration.

This is from the Jewish Virtual Library so I expect it is putting a positive spin on Zionism but the data and quotes seem to be accurate.

Quote:

A Population Boom

As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947 to more than 1.3 million.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states – constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel – by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 1922-­1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem, and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

Jewish Land Purchases

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine’s land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.

Jews went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said, “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.”

It was only after the Jews had bought all this available land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.”

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al-Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.

The Peel Commission’s report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.” Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was “due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/aunt-says-hamas-forced-12-year-old-hostage-to-watch-videos-of-atrocities-aimed-gun-at-him-when-he-cried/

We can all see the 'sentiment' in your posts.

Fair enough, but they are a far left organisation who publish conspiracy theories, are pro-Russian and support the authoritarian government in China and has been strongly supportive of the Syrian government and has been classified by the US Institute of Strategic Studies as  "the "most prolific spreader of disinformation" on matters concerning Syria".

That's a pretty low bar you set for yourself.

“So he had to watch a horrific video and had a gun pointed at him, and Emily had to speak in a low voice. 

Remember, what we were told was capture would be fate worse than death.”

With the greatest of respect until ALL of the hostages are released I think you, me, we should be cautious about being too optimistic about their ‘treatment’ at the hands of terrorists who wouldn’t think twice about killing them were it not for their value in the present context.

There were other matters raised in previous comments as well, such as weight loss, withholding of medication etc.

The Ottomans were a colonial power. The Arab Muslims were aa colonial power before them. The Romans before them.

Lets not kid ourselves here, If he/she was truly consistent they would not post selectively condemning murder- nor would they use murders as an attempt to score points. Of course the poster will deny that's what they are at. Anyone who isn't biased will not be deceived by their shenanigans.

Good people of Hamas are your words, not mine.

How likely do you think it is that the death and damage inflicted by Israel would have had no impact on the mindset of Palestinians?

Given the savagery that took place on October 7th, it's logical that the people who were capable of carrying this out would then also be capable of mistreating hostages. That said It wouldn't be a total shock to me if they are actually some individuals capable of acts of kindness, even within in an organisation whose ethos is vile. So I don't find it hard to believe that some hostages may well have been treated well, but i would expect most of them did not get a big bowl of Cornflakes and a couple of croissants every morning from their smiling and friendly captors .

You're really not good at answering questions, are you?

(67) 81 Palestinians killed in occupied West Bank since October 7, health ministry says (cnn.com)

Are Israeli lives more important than Palestinian lives?

Both sides are at it only the IDF have the better fire power.

Israeli lives are more important to Israelis, Irish lives are more important to Irish people, etc. That's just part of the human condition.

Which hostages are you talking about, the ones that were treated well, or the ones that were treated not well?