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The future of RTE after Tubsgate.

124678

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,029 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    I heard an ad on the radio asking people to complete a survey on the future of RTE. I missed the email address though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,754 ✭✭✭Tow


    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Anyone that thinks the future of RTE includes 2FM is deranged in my opinion. Never seen such a black hole of talent in all my life, maybe 1-2 should survive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    RTE+1s and TG4+1 is an entirely waste of space, the digital radio channels are trash as well. We should be shouting at the top of our heads to get VM1 HD (even though its rubbish too) then we can take it from there. I believe in quality not quantity, I want to see full HD (1920×1080) instead of 1440×1080) on Saorview.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    It appears as if most want VM in HD except VM. As regards the +1's, some love them, some think they are a waste. They are handy but when players are the norm the broadcaster gets advertising revenue from both sources, depends on which one is more profitable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,029 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    That's fine, but the RTE Player isn't functional.

    If programmes clash the +1 is an excellent option.

    I would rather miss something completely that spend an hour and a half getting more and more frustrated trying to catch up with a fifty minute long programme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,863 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I was just about to quote that poster to say the same. The RTE Player is the biggest pile ofshite ever. I'd love to know who wrote it. I wouldn't at all be surprised, actually, I'd expect it to be some RTE Exec's brother or sister in laws personal project which they ended up paying for.





  • Is VM1 not being

    If you have the VM player, VM1 is in HD on it (as is 2 & 3). It’s not as big an issue as it once was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭Tork


    I agree. I often use the +1 for not just RTE but other channels as well. Getting rid of those is optics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    I'd argue that neither RTÉ nor TG4 should have started with +1, BBC have no +1 channels.

    I think RTÉ should have been allowed to progress RTÉ Mix/THREE, largely it would have contain much of the +1 but at a different time or on a different day, along with other classic programming and imports and some sports, largely RTÉ News provides a +1 service for News and Current Affairs on RTÉ ONE in any case. RTÉ Mix/THREE would largely have just drop those shows, with maybe Fair City and EastEnders repeated at 10pm.

    7pm Old RTÉ Doc

    7:30 Classic Comedy

    8pm New imports

    9pm High quality imports / Film

    10pm Soaps

    11pm Repeat of other other RTÉ ONE/2 programming from earlier in the day

    12pm Assie Soaps repeat

    1:30 Classic Chat shows from RTÉ and the BBC

    TG4 initial plan for TG4 +1 was all new home produced shows would air an hour after broadcast on TG4 +1, while all imported programming would be replaced by classic TG4 archive programming.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    The BBC also don't have ads so it would make no sense to have them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Didn't the BBC want to replace BBC 3 with BBC 1 +1 a few years back?


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    This is a crazy idea. There is nothing there worth buying. These channels do not and cannot exist independently. Anybody looking to broadcast on Saorview (is there anyone???) would be far better off waiting for them to close and then approach 2rn about the freed-up capacity.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Granted, it is just a point of view, I think if you try setting up from scratch you'd be on to a looser. Freed up space is really only an option for Sky, in that case.

    And if you had read what I was saying it was suggesting the new owner by month 4 would have rebranded and changed the +1 services to stand alone ones, with the potential of making arrangement with RTÉ for some of their imported programming as part of the sale. It's just a though, much like closing them down is just as much of a thought.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    yes so in the end they've bought nothing, just the space on the muxes which they could have got from 2rn anyway.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    True, like buying a bucket of smoke, pop radio stations appear to 10 to the penny, albeit with a national rather than regional licence. As you say with the +1's, why buy it, wait till RTE close it and then rent the space, there don't appear to be too many bidders out there. Maybe a potential sale item might be the 2rn infrastructure, not for tv but for phone and data masts. I am sure they are being used for that purpose now and do/ could provide a revenue stream for the owner in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 976 ✭✭✭medoc


    When people say RTÉ should be forced to sell off tv or radio stations like RTÉ 2 or 2FM what do they expect to happen. What would you be buying in reality. For RTÉ 2 nothing except space on one of the muxes which you could rent directly anyway. The brand wouldn’t be useable. The rights to most/all sports and programming would remain with RTÉ. The value of buying RTÉ 2 ended after the analogue era. There would be some value in 2FM in gaining a nationwide frequency which with no DAB is somewhat valuable. But you would need to gain a license to broadcast something with all the costs associated with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    I largely agree, I don't want to see either sold. But I think over the last decade much of the problems with both lie with the Mismanagement of RTÉ, along with that debate over linear versus on demand, that debate is not help by RTÉ's management team.

    If a sale of RTÉ2 did occur it would have to come with some programming e.g. Aussie Soaps, UEFA champions league rights, potential Six Nation Rights, Some first run BBC programming like EastEnders, with the rest moving over to either RTÉ ONE or RTÉ News.

    2FM would have to reduce itself in size for a commercial operator to be interest, I'd argue that lack of cuts to 2FM have been a huge issue for RTÉ something they've not dealt with, rather thowning money away on the idea that it retains a young audience.

    Moya Doherty is wrong about 2FM when you have nothing surrounding it, when you cutting Drama, not investing in Comedy and cutting young people's programming then you are loosing that Youth audience and 2FM in that situation doesn't really matter and as we have seen becomes redundant.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    I think 2FM, if it is to be retained by RTE needs a whole rethink about what it is and what it could be.

    In a Dublin context, it’s just another commercial station with the same type of audience that is being catered to by 98FM/FM104 or Spin 1038, and I’d question why RTE needs to be involved in that market. Of course you could just sell the station and take the cash windfall, subject to the buyer obtaining a broadcasting contract from the Media Commission and being on the same basis as any other commercial broadcaster.

    I know outside of Dublin and perhaps the other cities the ILRs have generally gone for an older, more rural audience and maybe 2FM plays a key role in serving the younger listener there.

    Could that audience be better served by Today FM? Since Communicorp acquired Newstalk I’ve wondered about the value of keeping the remaining PSB obligations on Today FM, they are to an extent a relic of the original Radio Ireland format.

    You look then at 2FM and re-orienting its role as RTE’s second radio station, perhaps making it the home of radio sport, moving the Sunday morning programmes there once Radio 1 Extra goes, so that the religious services can move back to Radio 1, and making it a more generally PSB station.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    The acting chair of the BBC suggested at a conference today that a subscription type fee costing as much as £400 p a would be one of the alternative ways of funding the PSB, how would a similar figure go down here, what is PSB worth and what value do people put on it.



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  • “I know outside of Dublin and perhaps the other cities the ILRs have generally gone for an older, more rural audience and maybe 2FM plays a key role in serving the younger listener there.”

    Would the 3 regional stations (iRadio, Spin Southwest & Beat 102-103) not have the younger market covered outside of Dublin? Reduces the need for 2FM here as well IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    2FM should be rebranded back to its original name "RTE Radio2" and maybe carry much of the programming of RTE Gold, along with sports and Radio1 Extra content when it eventually goes.

    RTE should concentrate on its PSB on two of its primary Radio channels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If it's subscription i.e. opt-in then £400 isn't going to go very far. You'd also have to replace every Freesat and Freeview box in the UK with a new one and provide a box for standalone Freesat and Freeview TVs. That could be several new boxes a household and Virgin or Sky etc. won't be subsidising that cost.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    Whatever about the logistics, the BBC are exploring alternatives to the tv licence, with separate subs for tv, radio and news. It removes the legal requirement for a licence and an optional subscription makes the income stream unpredictable. How do other countries fund their PSB, what options are open to an Irish PSB or do we need one.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Usually either by a license fee, or some sort of charge akin to a licence fee but described differently, or some sort of dedicated tax (eg on electricity bills) or from general taxation, coupled with advertising in many cases. The BBC example of only license fee funding is actually the exception rather than the rule. Then you have the US where donations play a huge part.

    Practically no one uses a sub. The difficulty with doing so is you have to attract subscribers, and to do so you have to generate the kind of programming that attracts subscribers - premium sports and movies and entertainment.

    Five years after moving to a sub model, the BBC would be more Sky than Sky, and it would be unrecognisable from its current self.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If it requires a paid subscription then is it really a PSB at all?

    It's disgusting what the Tories have done to a lot of things but gutting the BBC is one of the worst. In the meantime it's produced the desired editorial effects though.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,863 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    What is this fixation on "How will you pay for it". Irish people are taxed quite heavily and as of the last budget we have a huge surplus. All other public services are paid for out of taxation, why should RTE be different?



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    For two reasons. One is that, unlike the license fee, general taxation funding can be very easily cut in accordance with the needs of the Government of the day. In the event of another crash RTE (and TG4) would be asked to take their share of public service cuts, subjected to moratoriums etc.

    The other reason is that direct taxation funding comes with strings, and that the effect of those strings is that RTE might no longer be a public broadcaster, but quite explicitly a Government broadcaster. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,863 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    OK, reason 1, what would be the problem with that?

    For reason 2, I'm sorry but thats a bit of a mickey mouse reason. Who sets the current cost of the TV License? The government. When RTE need a top up, who do they go to? The government. When RTE go with their begging bowl, is there not the same risk of a nod and a wink and an easy time for the government on RTE programs?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    Is that to say you would be happy with general taxation being increased to pay for a PSB or where are cuts made to transfer funds to the PSB.

    In a situation where a once opposition party, now in government, feels they weren't given good press by the PSB previously they decide to cut funding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    It already happened with the Licence Fee back in 2011.

    The government of the day did 2 things.

    1. They reduced TG4 Funding from the Exchequer
    2. The difference in that cut was then taken away from RTÉ's share of the licence fee and given to TG4

    This continued until 2018 when the decision was reversed.

    Huge questions as to how legal it was, perhaps legislation was past.

    The question is not about the Licence fee or Funding, this is a minor question and if solved would not have resulted in any changes in RTÉ, I'd imagine any real increase would have just resulted in more money being wasted.

    Bad Governance and mismanagement of RTÉ are at the heart of the problems, anything else is how should I put it ... Existential!


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,863 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Theres no need to increase general taxation. Just pay from it from the existing pot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    what happens if that pot doesn't exist or the government had to make cuts? Do you cut 200m from Health and keep paying out 200m to RTÉ?

    TG4 are in that situation, current government and almost all future government will have no problem funding TG4 but what if they don't have the money as we saw in 2011, TG4 gets cut... which resulted in cuts to RTÉ.

    IMO put a small fee across all forms of On-Demand and Telecommunications services, allow ComReg and CnaM dictated that fee on an annual basis.

    This small % of your telecommunications/entertainment bill would then go to Public Service Broadcasting across the board.

    You could set the amount at 300m to be raised, how much would you have to add to people's bills (3%? 4%)... of course then you have the cost of living crisis.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,863 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    There is 23% VAT on every TV sold, on every sky or virgin bill which goes to the government coffers. Why can that not be used to fund the PSB?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    I agree, a portion of that 23% could be used. And from a business point of view you could only allow 20% of the VAT on telecom products to be returned to business in VAT returns.

    I think the tax has to go across all telecoms and on-demand services.

    People see no problem spending 160euro a month on bills across mobile, TV, on-demand, Broadband and so on.

    That's about €29 in tax, €14 could be issued to Public Service Broadcasting.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭decor58


    It's continual funding that is the issue. I worked in the tv trade many years ago, we could not keep up with demand for tv for Italia90, sales were through the floor for a couple of years after. Sky and Virgin are continually loosing tv customers, that's why they push bundles so much. What happens when that source of revenue drops or dries up. Its that same "government coffers" that funds housing, education, health, social welfare, transport, yes we have a tax surplus at the moment but look how much the figures have changed from last year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Sky and Virgin will continue to be Broadband providers, and will provide on demand service through their Set top boxes / TV Sets.

    I'd include mobile phone bills, on-demand services bills and others who provide some kind of telecommunications all of whom we pay a 23% VAT charge. 300m from that VAT would be a tiny fraction of what is raised.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday





  • RTE announces some detail about it’s €10 million planned cuts for 2024. One measure is that Fair City goes from 4 to 3 nights a week from January.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    I would seriously wonder about this cut. I doubt that cutting fair city by 25% is could to cut costs to Fair City by 25%.

    In the new direction plan they state they will aim for 60 more hours of drama per year, but this cuts drama back by 52 hours, meaning their new direction is only give 8 hours of new drama per year.

    I'd wonder if they have looked to see if Fair City could cut cost first before reducing to 3 episodes a week.

    Surely this should have been outlined in the new direction.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well yeah. Successive governments have refused to increase the licence fee (although more because this would be unpopular, rather than a specific beef with RTE it seems) add that to falling advertising income and, yes, plenty of mismanagement and it's no wonder RTE is heading for the rocks.

    But increasing the licence fee and / or exchequer funding without reforming RTE is just rewarding failure.

    Performative nonsense like shutting down digital radio, or the +1s, or taking a night off Fair City are really just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    Full press release here : -

    MOD EDIT: the rule is a link and a summary please. Not a copy and paste of three quarters of the press release. Thanks.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭iseegirls


    --- The transmission of Young Offenders will also be deferred until 2025.

    How is there savings here? It'll be broadcast on BBC One anyway over the next few months.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Presumably similar to the infamous case of Amber, which was produced three years before it aired. Apparently RTE didn’t have to pay for it until it aired and kept postponing it. It got overseas airings in a number of countries before it aired on the broadcaster that commissioned it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    It have a feeling that only a financial accounting thing, I think RTÉ still spend the money in the year of production but the cost is only incurred in the year of broadcast. I think it is similar to Amber but in that case I think RTÉ were the main / if no the only financier.

    I wonder if RTÉ have asked the BBC to do the same, because I wouldn't have thought that RTÉ spend much on The Young Offenders its mainly a BBC commission and financed by them.

    Much of this is very little, RTÉ are basically telling us that cost in RTÉ go up during the summer months, something that successive boards / leadership teams have failed to address.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    It’s a particularly tough summer next year for them because there’s European and council elections, then Euro 24, then the Olympics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,610 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Which Saturday night chat show is being cut in 2024?

    I have a feeling that it could be Angela Scanlon's Ask Me Anything.

    The Tommy Tiernan Show would probably be safe next year unless both are there for the chop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭AJB39


    The Tommy Tiernan Show will return in January. I think this effectively means the cancellation of Angela Scanlon’s Ask Me Anything. I didn’t air in the Autumn and it now won’t air in the Spring either. A shame because while I’m almost certainly in the minority, I did enjoy it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Cutting back programming and +1s means a loss in advertising too. Are they trying to make it harder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭iseegirls


    Could they go to Virgin Media and see if they could split the Euro's? Or does the benefits of advertising and sponsorship outweigh that idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    Yes, the benefit of advertising and sponsorship and business politics outweighs such idea.

    As an aside remember virgin didn't screen a football match because it hadn't paid the license fee to screen the match according to sky.



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