Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Since when did silencing some have to include replacing them with a voice advocating the opposite.

You silence someone because you want to silence them, full stop. I didn't say that that is definitively what happened here, but just given you're trying hard to refute something that was claimed as such, lets not pretend that there's a need for to show favor in an opposite direction to confirm dislike of the former.

I've stated my belief, based on the evidence (he questioned Israels actions, he was taken off air along with other muslim presenters initially, his show has been cancelled) you're countering that belief based on no tangible factors to refute it other than your opinion.

The Israeli forces left infants to die in an emergency ward of a hospital. Their decomposing corpses visible in hospital beds as the parents and staff were made leave and abandon them to die. That is not just 'not nice guys'. It is barbaric.

The British public had no problem with the revenge bombing of Germany towards the end of the Second World War. The American firebombing of Japan had little strategic significance and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. The American public didn't raise a murmur about it. The Japanese murdered at least 3 million Chinese civilians during that war. Can you imagine what the Chinese would have done to Japan if they had the capability of invading and occupying it in 1945?

Wars brutalise both sides. That's why it's so important that other people in other countries have the discussion that we are having here. I don't mean us having it, I mean important people who inform and frame laws and set moral norms. It's also why accuracy is important, historical accuracy and precision in the use of language in order to avoid hyperbole and grandstanding. Those discussions were had after the Second World War but they are being forgotten now. I hope it won't take the deaths of 60 million people (or 115 million if the same proportion of the global population died now) for those voices to be heard again.

I've found it interesting reviewing some of the earlier peace efforts, that the Palestinians never initiate them. I don't think it's because "We're the victims the evil Israelis would never listen to us!" They're content with the status quo.

Depressing but I suppose not surprising to the killing on both sides has resumed.

But plenty of hostages still not released, right? So presumably a few more hundred or thousand deaths till there's another pause in fighting for hostage exchange?

"You mean the international law that Israel has been flouting for years with it's West Bank settlements?"

The reality is that the ICC, the UN, the EU etc are powerless if the US decides to ignore them. America is the most powerful country/entity/empire that has ever existed and its power is increasing, not declining. Israel is their ally, as are Saudi, Jordan and a few other neighbouring States. In the real world of realpolitik that's all that really matters.

What's this we business?

He along with the rest of the political leadership clearly doesn't believe in any of that. As they have all amassed great wealth and live in opulent surroundings abroad. So Ismail and co clearly prefer life over a martyrs death. Its simply rhetoric for the exiled leadership to inspire others to do the martyrdom.

Yes, without US support Israel would not be doing what it is doing. Without US support Ukraine would not be holding Russia back. Without US support Taiwan would not be standing gup to Russia. De Gaulle said that countries don't have allies, they have interests. The reality is that he was correct.

This really isn't that difficult to understand.

Ceasefire was in effect. It had a time limit. Hamas, instead of offering more hostages or some agreement-extending possibility, attacks.

Israel says fine, ceasefire over. And we are where we are. Tragic. So much loss of life.

Now, if the Palestinians would sue for peace, e.g., offer up Hamas and all the hostages, Israel would be forced to stop. Won't happen.

The poster was giving misleading information , the ceasefire was violated by both sides.

Even if all the hostages were released the war won't end. Bibi has made that quite clear. His future political survival depends on seeing this through. He claims the goal is to completely destroy Hamas, yet has promised not to touch those who enable the Hamas military wing to function .

Hamas are delighted. 32 people bombed to death thus morning. If a relative of every one of them joins Hamas to get back at Israel that's 32 new Hamas members. Their future, rather than them being destroyed, is actually secured.

Israel giving the 2 fingers to everyone.

Canimagine the sh1t that would be written if Hamas kidnapped one person today?

Read this the other day. Very grim predictions on what could happen next if Israel press on with this and ignore the US (which at the moment is confining itself to mildly chiding words from Blinken).

The article I posted literally countered the narrative within the one you posted.

But, when it comes to entities in the West swallowing what is said in relation to the narrative, I think the vast majority of people know the narrative that is pushed without question.

• Babies killed in Israel is barbaric and horrific and justifies a military response versus Children Killed in in Gaza is 'just what happens in war'.
• Israel Hostages versus Palestinian detainees
• Hamas terrorism versus IDF self defense
• Israel killing Palestinians during ceasefire is ignored versus Hamas breaking the ceasefire when they kill Israeli's
• Likud saying 'From the River to the sea' is fine versus Hamas saying 'From the River to the sea' is anti-Semitic
• Marches supporting Israel are against antisemtism versus marches supporting Hamas are Hate Marches
• 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?' 'Do you condemn Hamas?'

We've seen the way most of the politicians, government bodies and media outlets in the west have looked at what is happening and how they are reporting it.