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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    A Fine Gael TD, who is a former Minister and Chief Whip, has called for a "serious debate" around immigration and related issues.

    While it is technically possible, in a parliamentary democracy, for TDs to claim unanimous agreement - refusing to discuss or debate a hot-topic issue - that is not wise when it clearly an issue that concerns many people. There is a broad spectrum of opinion of course and we are all at different points on the spectrum.

    Now a sitting TD claims that TDs should debate it. He does not claim - like some posters here - that all TDs and established parties must first be voted out completely and replaced with a new sitting parliament.

    And btw did the Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Green Party general election manifestos include this kind of absolutism on immigration? I don't recall anything like that.

    I don't want to offend but many posters here are caught up in their Trump-Brexit-racism media-addicted merry-go-round and so won't take their foot off the pedal even a little bit, are engaged in taunting and are just in the wrong mental state for ordinary actions like making a compromise and even just listening to other people's point of view. It really is quite bad and a problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    It's far too late for FG to want to talk about immigration. They have been in government over a decade and are on the way out.

    Best to let SF with their open borders mentality take the reigns which will hopefully and finally and hopefully lead to the birth of a proper right wing common sense party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Aontú with one sitting TD and three councillors have also said:

    "Ireland should have a debate around the issue of immigration. It must be an honest, respectful and responsible discussion. Suppression of the debate will not make its necessity less but will push the natural anxiety of some underground to be harvested by less responsible people. "

    They are a left-wing party whose position is that refusing to address the issue will strengthen the far-right



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    And btw did the Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Green Party general election manifestos include this kind of absolutism on immigration? I don't recall anything like that.

    Here's a chart setting out the broad parameters of party immigration policies prior to the 2020 election


    It's difficult to relate it directly to the current situation as nobody saw the Ukraine influx coming

    But I think it's fair to say none of the main parties were proposing what could reasonably be described as a 'restrictive' immigration policy



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    A Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks poll found that near twice as many people would now support an anti-immigration party or candidate in Ireland compared to two years ago,

    🔹 28% of respondents would now consider supporting a party or candidate holding “strong anti-immigration views” — a percentage twice as large as when the same question was asked in September 2021.

    🔹 36% of Sinn Féin voters would consider voting for an anti-immigration party as well as 77% of Aontú supporters, 55% of those that support independents. Dublin has the lowest share of those who would consider a strong anti-immigration party.

    🔹 46% of all respondents said they hold views about curbing immigration that they would be slow about sharing in public.

    Prof Rory Costello of the University of Limerick has highlighted there is a “gap” in the political market here.

    Compared the 2018 European Social Survey, when this question was previously asked, it would show that Ireland is now less liberal than it had been before. And long may it continue.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    There no chance this could be an FG wheeze to take some heat out of the issue, give the impression that they are 'listening to voters' concerns', without making any substantial policy changes, is there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,873 ✭✭✭Augme



    Aontu a left wing party? 😂😂 I suppose that must make the National Party centre left? 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The government and other parties may choose to discuss it to some degree and even suggest policy tweaks but there is no chance they will stop the large scale influx or even do proper planning. Change in policy can only happen through instruction from Europe.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,403 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Simple they want to silence everyone who wants to see migration controlled,

    Anyone who wants to discuss migration must be a far right neo Nazi hence the links



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Aontú leader said on the Tonight Show on VM1 this week that there is not a shred of evidence that immigrants and refugees are more likely to commit crimes than Irish people. I think they are looking for a genuine and respectful debate on the issues across all parties, not the type that the Gript crowd want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I dare say I and others here have voted in a damn sight more referendums than you have. So yes, we understand them. Where there's a will there's a way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭jmreire


    You ask your local representative if they are in favor of emigration as it is now or not, yes or no, if they cannot give a definite answer, then tell them that your vote is reserved for politicians who are not in favor and will work actively to change the system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Interesting point that the majority of people don't want to change that. Do you have a link to recent polls etc as to what kind of Ireland Irish people want at this time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Honesty Policy


    Oh my God...had a warning about a post there, didn't say anything nasty in it, only said that a lot of people want an open and honest discussion about mass immigration and a very clear policy around it.

    Had a post deleted yesterday, no warning or explanation given. Again nothing nasty in it. I'm a mother and a teacher, my priority and thoughts are always with the little children who got stabbed, first and foremost.

    This is all getting a bit North Korea's level of surveillance for my liking. Boards.ie led by whom!!! Don't think the right way, delete!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But some constituencies may not have such candidates, or none with a realistic chance of being elected. Does the voter who would never in principle vote for the national party nevertheless tell the mainstream party canvasser they intend to do that as the only way of exercising leverage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I'm not so sure about Aontu, Toibin is still a shinner at heart and would probably still be with them if it wasn't for the difference in views about abortion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Can you imagine what it will be like with the new hate speech law?

    I know of meetings in small communities regarding refugees(men 30 years of age or less), which had to be "secret meetings" just because of all the racist/far right labeling of anyone who comments against what the government is doing.

    WTF is going on in our country when we have to have legitimate meetings but classified as "secret meetings" in communities?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Same applies, no constituency candidate that can bring the result you want, then at the door when the local candidate comes knocking (or any other place you can make your opinion and views known will do) You make it clear that they are not getting your vote. And you know something, I think that by the time the next GE comes around, no political party will be able to claim ignorance of the immigration issue. In fact, between then and now, I expect the immigration issue will become a hot topic, and a very hot topic at that. Even now, the Political parties are very much aware of what's happening on the ground, especially rural TDs in their clinics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It is a socialist party which split from Sinn Féin over the issue of abortion not that long ago.

    Aontu = SF + opposition to abortion



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I'm hoping the Farmers Alliance will be up and running in time for the election, their views would be broadly in line with my own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,430 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But isn’t that just effectively neutralising the issue from the perspective of the mainstream parties. Mass abstention by voters in a given constituency concerned about immigration means nobody gains or loses much on the issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Why would you think you have voted in more than me?

    So, if you understand them, you know when a referendum can be called then. Calls for referendum on immigration are just ridiculous and pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Oh I've no doubt thats exactly what they will do but I'm still going to say my piece and push them for answers on the immigration topic.

    For too long people have just accepted the status quo and have been afraid to open their mouth about the direction this country is going, sure I'm only one voter but if we don't start to speak up then nothing changes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    I'm not a farmer but they'll get my vote if they can put an end to this nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    McEntee’s blanket amnesty for illegals migrants should be made a perpetual policy, according to a group of cross-party TDs and senators on the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Integration. The committee compiled a list of 96 recommendations they believe should be implemented by the Government to support asylum seekers.

    It was only last year when McEntee issued the precious amnesty for those who broke Irish immigration laws and who had been living here for over four years (or three years with a child born here). The so-called “regularisation scheme for undocumented migrants” was also open to asylum seekers who had been in the country for over two years. McEntee described it as a “once-in-a-generation scheme” and accepted applicants for over six months. Almost 5,000 illegals and more than 3,000 asylum seekers were granted permission to remain in Ireland under the scheme. The top three countries of origin for asylum seekers in Ireland are Georgia, Nigeria, and Algeria. Between 95% and 100% of their asylum applications are typically rejected annually, but deportation rates for failed applicants are next to nothing.


    Catherine Ardagh, Finne Fail, described giving deportation orders to failed asylum seekers as "institutional psychological bullying" with them hanging over their heads. There have been several changes to the Immigration Acts to improve the State’s capacity to enforce deportation orders in certain circumstances where the subject of the order seeks to evade or frustrate their deportation. These amendments were to improve the effectiveness of existing legislative provisions allowing for the arrest, detention, and removal of non-nationals who have a deportation order in force and removal from the State of persons refused "leave to land." The means to manually deport a person is there, but the state is failing to carry them out. A deportation order should never be hanging over a person's head they should just be reported within in 48 hours of it being issued.

    To shed further light on the failure of the state to enact and carry out deportations of criminals, failed asylum seekers and those who outstay their visas, and any others found to have absolutely no legal right to remain or be here...

    In 12 months between July 1st 2022 and June 31st 2023, 867 deportation orders issued, just 42 were enforced by the Gardaí. A further 55 people had left voluntarily. In 2023, from January 31st - September 31st - 761 deportation orders were issued, just 30(4%) were enforced.

    EU central statistics show that in the 1st quarter of 2023, 27,880 deportations of non-EU citizens from member states. The Irish state issued 340 deportation orders. Just 70 were deported. The 3rd lowest of all member states other than Slovenia and Luxembourg. Take Denmark for example, it has a similar population but stricter policy) they deported 375 people.

    4,631 deportation orders were signed by McEntee between 2018-2022, and just 314 (6.78%) – were enforced by the state on people who refused to leave and 3,887 asylum seekers who were issued with deportation orders have an ‘unknown status’.

    Mass deportation is economically sound, logistically feasible, and could be accomplished in a matter of years if the state made an effort.There is no data regarding the efficiency of the “self-deportation” system as we don't have exit checks. We don't know who left. Its a joke. I thihnk its somethig to do with their 2040 plan, to up the numbers and a diversify. No more of this "we decide if they go, they decide they stay."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The primary concern of any TD is getting re-election (or for newcomers, to get elected for the first time) and to this end, their public approval antennae are very finely tuned. Once local TDs start feeling the heat from their constituents, especially through their clinics, (and they are, on a whole range of issues, but Immigration is seen as the cause of a lot of these problems) but not only that, forums like this one, and when the selfsame politicians are saying that the whole question of immigration needs to be looked at, that's a level of awareness that there's a problem, and it's a problem that could affect their re-election chances. So yes, I think that between now and election time, you will see most (if not all) political parties coming out with "changes" concerning their position on immigration.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Let them pass all the laws, let's see how that works for them.

    A government completely detached from its electorate is not a government.



This discussion has been closed.
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