Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Land transfer

Options
  • 04-12-2023 6:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭


    Can someone tell me in simple terms about land transfer from father to son.

    I know its a really convoluted process, but high level a few bullet points

    How can this be done to minimize tax

    I know there is the green cert course but not sure what advantage this gives......................so as you can see my knowledge is really limited



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,826 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Google "consanguinity relief"



  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Fine Day


    Every case is different. You need to engage with your solicitor, account and maybe a good ag advisor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    0% stamp duty under the above, for the process you need 2 solicitors one acting for your father and one on your behalf, your father's solicitor does the majority of the work....

    Your checklist entails a 5 year business plan submitted to teagasc 180 euro for this, you also need the land valued by a auctioner and a document from them outlining the above 850 euro thereabouts

    You need your greencert/birth-cert/proof of address etc and that's about it



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604


    I am over 35. Don’t have any green Cert. Work a full time job.

    very little knowledge of farming. No real interest in it. (Being totally honest)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    You'll have no agricultural reliefs available so, bar whatever the gift limit is between a father/son you'll have a nice wallop of tax to pay depending on farm value/size



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    is there any advantage on doing a land transfer now? Versus the Will where I will get the land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,826 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Could still potentially avail of Ag Relief. The main barrier might be satisfying the asset test.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,995 ✭✭✭893bet


    How many acres? And are their other assests going your way (cash, house etc).



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Of course if your father where to go into nursing-home care, with the land still in his name the state/nursing home could have a claim on the land for the cost of his care, if his finances ment he hadn't the funds in the bank to cover his care, I'd be getting the transfer done on the above grounds alone



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭n1st


    Green cert is not required but can help with tax.

    Active farmer will help, livestock etc.

    Valuation of your own assets vs the value of the farm required to reduce tax liability. Some calculation made 80% I think i.e. if your assets are less than 1/5th of the value of the farm then you have no tax liability, else you do and it's big.

    Stamp duty also required.

    I don't believe there's much difference financially between gift and inheritance.

    I'm just at the latter end of mine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    so let’s say a house worth 300k and land worth 400k, I am shagged.

    what is the tax that would need to be paid in this example?



  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭n1st


    The value of the farm @ 23% I think, something like 80k.

    I could be wrong on the tax rate but it's on the full value of the farm.

    Sheds, machinery, stock etc all added.


    However there is an alternative, the 350k lifetime gift from parent to child. You can do it via this and not have anything to do with active farmer. It's just a gift from parent to child.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    thanks. What do you mean by the active farmer scenario?



  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭n1st


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/cat-reliefs/agricultural-relief/what-are-the-conditions-for-agricultural-relief.aspx



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604


    So essentially you can be an active farmer if you rent and have no savings etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,995 ✭✭✭893bet


    Shed etc? Any cash or house etc that can eat into your life time allowance?


    The 45 acres if poorer land and no other assets or cash being inherited might have you under the life time allowance. This would allow you take ownership with no inheritance tax or stamp at death of your father/mother.


    however if the land is anyway decent and there are other assets at play your life time allowance will be blown and you will have 33% to pay on top.

    Waiting until death to inherit then you need to look at the bigger picture of 1) overall life time allowance and the likely value of the assets. 2) Consider how “fair deal” could play out if ever needed for your parents.


    Going for the transfer now has advantages and disadvantages.

    While you can get Agri relieve of 90 percent, and stamp duty relief down to 1 percent. You have you dance a few hoops, have to actively farm, and meet the asset test.


    Note for the asset test if you have a house worth 400k with your wife, but owe 200k mortage. Then you only have a 200k asset of which you own 100k. You would then need the farm valued at more than 400k to meet the 80 percent test.


    There are different permutations that you need to write down and calculate their impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    thanks. There are a few sheds, tractor, plough, harrow, transport box etc


    I presume money in the bank counts as an asset and I presume any money my wife has in the back counts as an asset?

    it’s ok land. Bout 5 acres of boggy stuff and realistically only 20 acres really suitable for silage or tillage etc. as of now. Maybe 10 more could be if re seeded etc.


    not sure what you mean by “life time allowance”



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ismat


    You can claim business relief on the farm assets and get the same 90% value reduction for CAT. Claim congansuity relief to get the stamp duty to 1% on the transfer value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 23,368 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I went through this and basically you need to satisfy asset test which you either meet or you don't. 80 percent of assets after inheriting must be farm assets.


    You can lease to active farmer to get relief if you are working full time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ismat


    You don’t need to satisfy the ag relief test to get the 90% reduction in value for CAT purposes. It you are under 35 and have the green cert then the ag relief removes the stamp duty entirely and gives you the 90% value reduction. If you can’t meet this test you are entitled to pay 1% stamp duty on a transfer of farmland from parent to child. You can also claim business relief on the asset value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,995 ✭✭✭893bet


    To satisfy the means test all assets need to be valued. Wife’s money if in her name only is not relevant. 50 percent of joint accounts only….and plan ahead……I


    Life time allowance means how much you can be gifted or inheritance from a parent. 335k is the number. Above that is taxed at 33%.


    Do some reading. It’s not that complicated



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    I am NOT under 35. and I Never did the green cert.



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ismat


    In that case you pay the 1% stamp on the transfer and claim the 90% reduction for business relief. Should be no tax due bar minimal stamp duty on a transfer to you assuming you have not taken a previous gift from your parents



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,826 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    It's probably not too difficult to satisfy the asset test given that you can plan in advance. You would have options such as investing some of your own savings into land first if you needed to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604


    Sorry. What do you mean by 90% reduction for business relief? Specifically the word business



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭obi604



    a lot of things I don’t get on this thread - sorry. 😔

    how does investing savings in land improve things?



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭ismat


    The value of the assets being transferred to you are reduced by 90% before capital acquisitions tax is calculated. You can receive a gift or inheritance up to 335k from a parent tax free. The 90% reduction means that if you get farm assets worth say 500k and if they qualify for either ag relief or business relief then for cat purposes they are valued at 90% less or 50 k in this example. You would pay no tax in this instance as you have not exceeded the 335k threshold



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,826 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The asset test means that 80% of your assets have to be in agricultural assets on the day you inherit.

    If your assets consist only of savings of 1m in the Bank, then the assets you inherit must be valued at over 4m to avail of the relief

    If you spend 500k of that 1m in advance on your own agricultural assets, then the assets you inherit have to be valued at over 1.5m. If you spent 600k, then you only have to inherit 1m and so on etc.


    If you think there is a chance that you will ever sell the land, your strategy is to get the Ag Relief and have Revenue accept a valuation as high as possible. With the Ag Relief you can inherit over 3m with no CAT.

    I assume for transfers, the downside would be the 1% SD. Not 100% certain of the inter vivos transfers bit.



Advertisement