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RTE Investigates: Irish Planning Extortion

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    I wouldn't be surprised if John Callaghan was video this too...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭bigroad


    So is this legal or have the Guards been notified.looks very much like an act of extortion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,089 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Yes they can: an NGO is just an organisation that is not owned by the government. So every business (except sole-traders), every sports club, every church, every lobby group is a NGO.

    Some NGOs do charitable work and get government subsidies for it. Some don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,456 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    he's invoiced the developer for services and that invoice was paid.

    don't know how as he's making threats to derail a development this can be picked up by the garda





  • Extortion, plain & simple. The evidence is written all over this program. State needs to prosecute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭mf240


    Hes lucky none of the meetings were upstairs.





  • God lads this is **** desperate. I feel like our Government (successive Govts) have really created the conditions for this behaviour to thrive through things such as a lack of technology investment and unsupervised state bodies. Absolutely no fear of legal repurcussions either.

    We need to wake the **** up. There is a desperate housing crisis and this **** going on. They are not the only ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭bigroad


    You would wonder what the Callaghan's income tax situation is from all these payments.





  • I mentioned the courts in post #37 to which you responded in post #41. Re the programme itself: jaw dropping stuff. Also reinforces what I said earlier about nuisance objectors weaponising ineffiencies, ie delays, in the system to heap pressure on developers to give way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭lmk123




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Verona Murphy, outside An Bord Pleanala, this whole thing stinks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,835 ✭✭✭Allinall






  • A slight interruption of Upfront program, an anti-Israel protester



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭bigroad


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Surly to god the local authorities can do the same checking that Rte done to see are these a registered ngo and if not pay no attention to the observations, also how far away from proposed development these two boys we’re living, and one supposedly a blue shirt person and wonder will Leo sweep this under the carpet and put him on the ticket for election as a reward for helping planning along to shorten the housing crisis.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Fair play, looks like she stopped the conflict.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭Bellbottoms


    This is the bellend that has been blocking hi rise in Dublin.


    "We use Paris as our model, it's the most densely populated city in the world".


    It's not. That is Male followed by Manila.

    Paris is 32nd


    Even Levallois Perret would only be number 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    The Callaghans are ignorant porcine f*cktards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    This story is crazy. He was a Fine Gael election candidate.

    The same FG that have been sitting on Planning reform laws for 10 years.

    The Mahon Tribunal in the late 1990s pushed FF and FG to implement urgent planning reform. 2023 and the reform legislation is shelved while in review.

    The power swap have utterly destroyed this country. No wonder there was a housing crash and there is a housing crisis.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Sure Sinn Fein co councillor's sometimes water board people and take part in murder plots, no one is perfect. 😉



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭spurshero


    Can the 2 men be charged with blackmail or anything ??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I don't vote Sinn Fein. Never have.

    I voted FG for 20 years until I woke up to the scam.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,466 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Yes but these two brothers would escape that provision. Claiming to be objecting for environmental issues and then taking a consultancy role to advise on improving environmental matters. I'm sure they would argue that taking them on board as a consultant would then allow them to withdraw appeal as they have input on an ongoing basis to attempt to improve the development. It's a brilliant scheme really and as they said themselves, they are doing nothing wrong. Untouchable.

    There are many running the same appeal scheme but most would be taking underhand payments to go away without the cover of being a consultant etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Should be easy enough to investigate these two, just follow the income..😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,404 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    7K or feed him? I'd pay the 7K.





  • I think this debatable, and could indeed stand up in court as evidence of extortion





  • What does that have to do with what is happening here?

    Fine Gael and their supporters are **** dipshits to keep attacking SF. Its going to get them into power.

    Completely idiotic strategy and it pisses the whole country off to be honest everytime they deflect instead of addressing the issue. I've given up on FG a pack of absolute self serving spoofers.

    Join the IMF Paschal - get away from the useful idiots.





  • Dublin vs Paris. Poles apart architecturally.

    Dublin is not Paris ffs - some of these fellas are deluded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Hopefully a file has been opened on that very matter... Maybe even DSP would have a look to see if benefits are being claimed that they have no entitlemebt too if working as consultants etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Ffs. Didnt take long for the FFG bots to come alive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭pgj2015




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    "Environmental consultant", I bet both of those pigs have Range Rovers or something from that class of metal tumours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    These lads are a pair of gougers obviously. In any normal country they would be facing serious prison time. The fact that one of them has serious political links would normally mean serious implications for that political party including bringing into question their position in government. Not Ireland though. No. In my experience developers and the likes or real estate agents have always operated in a murky world. So the gougers gouging the biggest gougers in the country ( the property developers) is almost funny.

    This is nothing to do with the housing crisis btw. Nothing. I wouldn't be letting FFG try to use it to deflect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,742 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    Is this not on RTE player or am I blind? I can't search the thread to see if this was asked. Old site had search a thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I am curious. I voted FG for over 20 years. All my family did since the foundation of the state. But I was able to stand back and criticise FG politicians and the party when I felt they were wrong. Are you incapable of that? Is politics so entrenched for you? It must take serious blinkers.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The fact that one of them has serious political links would normally mean serious implications for that political party including bringing into question their position in government.

    He most certainly does not have "serious political links". The vast majority of sitting councillors don't have serious political links, never mind a failed candidate from 14 years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    You would think so and also that it would be a law right now or that existing laws would cover such an eventuality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭Gusser09




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.



    And I would say that is probably the most likely outcome. Although it will be interesting to hear about the threshold for possible fraud and if the contents of the RTE programme satisfies it . Unfortunately for the two brothers, all of the cases they have objected to are traceable via the county council websites and the ABP website.

    Simply perusal of the "letterhead" name pulls up several planning cases and appeals, and in some cases they appealed as individuals in addition to what seems to be a makey up name. They do not seem to be an Environmental NGO and part of the RTE investigates programme suggests via the interactions they were trying to establish a name for themselves in the planning arena, particularly putting it up to ABP ! Laughable

    Of course the Planning Authorities know this charade goes on. And lodging a comment at the initial planning stage is just a bookmark to appeal a case, or a shakedown that some might call it. Environmental protection groups tend to be serious in their concerns and not accept payoffs and there are enough Environmental Governmental bodies anyway.

    The legitimacy of an individual's right to express concerns about a development (most of which are local anyway) should not be mixed up with this type of carry on.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Surprised this isn't being featured more prominently in today's news. Apart from a couple of fluff pieces last night after the show aired and a few articles way down in the list of stories this isn't really being discussed much in most news outlets today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    I just thought it was funny someone having a go at Fine Gael over something like this when you have Sinn Fein who have serious criminals in their ranks. Im not some die hard Fine Gael supporter either, I voted for them in the last election but will be voting Fianna Fail in the next one.

    I think them 2 brothers are dirt by the way and anyone who acts like they did and I hope they get prison time for what they did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    This is just another example of the terrible legal system we have which works to serve those with their nose in the troff instead of the public.

    If the legal system was able to process these judicial reviews in a timely fashion instead of 2 years then these two gangsters wouldn't be able to operate.

    Its the same with many other areas. Direct provision centers full with people for years while their cases are delayed and delayed legally.

    Insurance premiums high because of dubious legal claims brought by the legal profession to get their slice of the pie.

    A revolving door for crime and criminals, i dont need to say any more about that.

    If you take the entire legal system which is dinosaur not fit for purpose and reform it with modern standards you could both save money and provide to the people at they need.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    If Verona Murphy brought it up with ABP and they did nothing, do you think they even launched their own investigation or had the brothers protection?

    In a statement, An Bord Pleanála confirmed its former interim chairperson Oonagh Buckley had spoken with Verona Murphy, and that she was told about people making an appeal for financial gain.

    However, the statement says An Bord Pleanála did not have sufficient information to take the matter further.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2023/1204/1420117-meeting-between-objectors-and-developer-observed-by-verona-murphy/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,466 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    The system I'd crap and this shouldn't go on but I'm not going to cry for the property developers either.

    Programme smells alittle bit government supported perhaps to help with introduction of new planning bill which might take away some powers from the people.

    The programme made developers out to be heros providing housing for the people.

    The same property developers are well able screw their own customers when the going is good so not a bit of pity for them and no its not a cost passed on to customer. They will charge the highest price they can get per unit regardless of profit levels.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,700 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Too many people with their nose in the money unfortunately. This wasn't run to protect and serve members of the public and address the housing crisis. It was done solely for the developers benefit. It's a murky enough world and these two belong in it.

    I'd love RTE investigates to run an expose as a follow on from this and reveal the massive profits a developer will make on a 3 bed semi.

    What should also be done as part of that is an expose on the developers who were let walk away from hundreds of millions of euros worth of debt. Where are they now? I know at least 3 in my local area who are now making serious profits again and have never been held to account. That's not right.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,110 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This stuff really should belong in the conspiracy theories forum.

    In Ireland, we love going on about fraudulent behaviour, and why is nothing ever apparently done about fraudulent behaviour. Yet when fraudulent behaviour is exposed, we equivocate. "Ah yea it's terrible but sure it's just property developers", "ah he was a member of FG and ran for election like 15 years ago, and THAT'S what we should focus on".

    It's similar to how we celebrate cute-hoorism with other people who game/cheat the system.

    It doesn't matter if it's property developers or an elderly granny getting screwed, fraud is fraud and either we're serious about addressing it when it's exposed or we're not.

    Ireland's planning system is too open and exposed to this sort of abuse. Yea it's great that everyone and anyone can lodge an appeal about anything anywhere, but this is the flip side of the coin of that argument. I think there is a serious discussion needed about restricting planning objections somewhat, there is surely a happy medium to be found.

    But you can bet that the same people expressing outrage at this will be the same people expressing outrage if planning was changed. Go figure.

    I think everyone apart from the most dim-witted understands we need property developers to build more houses in order to ease our housing crisis, and anything that slows this process down for nefarious reasons is not in the interest of Irish citizens. This sort of garbage is contributing to our housing crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.



    The programme highlights the apparent actions of 2 individuals who some might say were gaming the system for financial gain.

    Not to be confused with the rights of individuals to object or comment on planing developments.

    And you think the programme is something to do with Government agenda to push new planning laws through. That doesn't even make sense.

    Same as the comment above yours about Judicial Reviews which makes no sense either. JR's and the Appeals Process/Right to comment are completely separate areas.





  • The legal system does seem to be the cause of a lot of our woes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,095 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    And by the way - it’s not just residential property developers that get targeted by spurious objections from people that are in no way affected by the development.

    A pet crematorium in the back of an industrial estate in Ennis, Co. Clare received just one planning objection when it was proposed in 2022 - from a guy called “Don Weldon” in Navan, Co. Meath, 175 km away. One of the grounds for objection was inadequate parking!

    It turned out there was actually no “Don Weldon” at the complainant’s address in Meath - but there was a “Dawn Weldon” there who worked for a local pet crematorium in Trim.

    Planning was eventually given, but only after a significant delay

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/pet-crematorium-gets-go-ahead-despite-single-objection-from-other-side-of-the-country/41551840.html



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