Deposit return scheme (recycling)

I hope so.

I expect if cans are dropped intact they won't be left too long in an urban environment. In rural areas they tend to get driven over.

I'm still living in hope and looking forward to a reduction in can litter.

Next item on the agenda fast food packaging.

Lidl ones are not Re-Turn ones. They are their own pilot.

@Ray Palmer I was referring to shops operating manual collection which was the point i was responding to. Those shops dont have RVMs. Their take is collected and centrally sorted in an rVM, counted and then crushed.

Am curious - do you store these indoors or in a shed? Given they have a cash value, storing them say at the side of a house (where I keep my recycling) could mean people stealing your empties.

Yes but I wasn't talking about someone who would break into your property to steal high value items.

There will be people who make small money from 'finding' un-returned bottles and cans. Far easier for them to raid a recycling bin by the side of a house that is full of unreturned cans and bottles than say randomly rooting through public bins for the odd can or bottle thrown away.

Some of the comments in Adams Tweet thread above that stuck out to me:

".. you can return the plastics to any store/machine.But the receipt you get will only apply to that store - but you can go in and exchange it for cash (or spend it there, like a coupon).So who decides whether u get cash or spend the value there. Do you or shop make that decision"

"The surcharge will have a significant inflationary impact on prices, will it be included or excluded from CPI?" .. ( ans seems to be NO )

"In theory it’s great but for those who already pay for recycling bins we are now having to pay twice and go to the trouble of bringing them to the supermarket"

"See how that machine says “up to €2 max”? Does this mean we can’t bring our weekly amount of bottles back? The max return amount is 2€? Also, why does it say 5c per item when we’re paying 15c per small bottle?"

"note there is no mention of the admin fee that will be charged and take up most of the value of the deposit. In effect it will be inflationary"

Apparently the retailer decides whether you get CASH back or Credit? latter needs to be spent in that store then?

While I do think the idea is good I just cannot shake the feeling there is a dodgy irish angle where the shops concerned or from this yet another quango .. from our past experience.

Im also surprised by how under the radar this is for such a relatively big change coming very very soon. In general chat with people, most have not heard of it OR they have and think its mainly for people/kids who might pick up empty plastic bottles, cans and go into shop to make a bit of pocket money. NONE realised the impact it will have on them via increased prices and into green bin or to store to return to get cash back.

I reckon it's intentionally kept quiet for a number of reasons - not least by the shops/chains themselves who will be making a fortune untill customers have copped on.

If I return beer cans and get a voucher to use in store, can i use it to buy more beer/put it towards my beer purchase ?

The use of vouchers towards booze is illegal , i assume it can work like a shop bought voucher, where you can buy booze with it ?

I can't understand why the can/bottle needs to be 100% intact to be accepted, could the system not scan the label/barcode and have an expected weight of x for the item and simply reject any that are not this weight? Obviously the scan part would need to be untouched. All are getting crushed moments after going in to the machine.

You should look at the https://re-turn.ie/ site. Plastic containers up up 3L require a deposit. 5L are not part of the scheme.

Other strategies to consider:

Get a sodastream. Make sparkling water and soft drinks from 5l bottle or tap.

Buy in glass where you can (e.g. beer)

Buy in bulk in NI for other items, continue to recycle at home. (Also buy in bulk before Feb, there will be discounts).

I plan to completely avoid this scheme for as long as I can by doing the above.

Some interesting strategies there.

It remains to be seen exactly how this will affect consumer habits but I think it definitely will bring change.

I also think you are on the money about pre February discounts.

I can see a few bargains emerging in the craft beer sector.

There was a nurse from Dublin on Joe Duffy recently who left an AirTag in his recycling. It tracked to………Poolbeg incinerator.

The logo and barcode work together. Companies can choose to use the same barcode on a bottle of beer in the uK as they do in Ireland...BUT they pay over twice the producer fee to put that product on the market. Every producer is paying a fee to cover the cost of the scheme, that fee comes in the form of a per unit charge. if a producer has a Ireland only barcode (likely on high volume items) they pay x, if they have a barcode useable in other markets, including for example NI, they pay 2.5x (ish).

You are right that fraud is the issue, but you are wrong to minimise the risk. similar schemes have run into significant financial problems by not mitigating that risk. The risk wont go away post brexit because the UK scheme (post brexit) will not fully allign with ROI.

Also the idea of a 5c deposit wont work as it generally leads to low return rates. The deposit has to be large enough to make it worth while returning. We're about mid-range on deposit levels around the world.

You'll literally be throwing money away.

Ironically a "hobo" picking up a few cans will be doing a better recycling job than you.

Surely this ill thought out scheme is also going to lead to a significant reduction of choice for consumers? I'm partial to the odd imported craft beer - are some, say, American, brewery going to go to the hassle and expense of engaging with this scheme for the sake of a pallet of beer a year.....or are they just going to stop selling here?

Some will probably stop, but not too many. If the margin is big enough as it is on a lot of imported beers a sticker solution is available for small batches. Its gonna fall on the distributors to decide whether its worth their while.

We were ahead of most places with kerbside recycling of the products, but apparently that was all a charade.

Adding seperate wheelie bins for plastic bottles and one for cans would have been a much better idea than deposit return. Additionally more space will need to be taken up in your home to store the bottles and cans in pristine condition than if you had 2 more bins.

I've heard before that Ireland actually has very good 'downstairs' recycling rates - i.e. kitchen etc, which would include plastic bottles and cans. I don't believe that many people are actually putting plastics and cans into the general waste at home - why would you, when most folks are on pay by weight? Anyone I know has a separate recycling bin in home and outside and this scheme is just a solution in search of a problem. Point accepted re bottles being discarded around the place - but is this not symptomatic of Ireland's tolerance of low level antisocial behaviour, and an indication that maybe we should enforce our littering laws, which don't seem to be in effective force at all? As I said before, it tells a lot that the Scottish Greens - who are swivel eyed loons compared to our lot, and who had a similar scheme as a platform policy - have binned their scheme as unworkable.

Irish people are generally speaking quite lazy and will shirk any responsibility to do the right thing if it costs them time and money. It would be better if rubbish collection was built into taxes so people wouldn't have any reason to drive out with bin bags and dump them on the side of the road somewhere.

This recycling will only be taken up by the responsible people, if it's too much hassle Irish people in the main won't be arsed.