Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Automated nonsense response - I can do it too - "Why are you justifying the targeted and deliberate torture and murder of Palestinian toddlers for entertainment by Israeli psychopaths, typical response from posters here"

What Israel is currently engaged in is a massive dirty stain on humanity. Any reasonable person will conclude that it’s lost it’s right to exist in the pantheon of states anymore. It’s written it’s own warrant and made a massive mistake that will see it’s demise.

Thankfully someone on this discussion who can see both sides.

The Hamas attack really was vile beyond belief, if even half of the sexual torture reports coming out now are true it is insane that anyone could think the attack was legitimate resistance.

At the same time, Israeli as a state is deeply traumatized and knows only brutal overreaction to any perceived threat.

Yes they don't do themselves any favours trying to make journalists and reporters out as being stupid. I wonder is this why so many reporters have been killed in Gaza, almost 80 now?

All of this sudden discussion this week in the media of rapes on October 7th has made quite a few observers suspicious. A cynic might suggest the regime knows it is taking massive criticism globally for its undoubted numerous war crimes in Gaza and is making desperate moves to try and shift the narrative away.

You can rant about the facts all you want, they are the facts. Israeli people at the festival have reported this. And I'll give you more to lose the run of yourself over.

Hostage families have repeatedly said that the Government is not doing enough to get their loved ones back and is instead prioritizing killing Palestinians.

Not only this, but Israel were told about the attack planned for the festival and didn't increase security to deal with it, or take any measures such as cancelling the festival.

And there's more, Nethanyahu said that Hamas were a key part in Israel preventing the development of a two states solution in the area. He of course knew what Hamas would do in order for this to be the case.

So there's 3 more ways in which Israel is not putting the safety of its Citizens above everything else as was claimed, deal with it.

And I've never said Israel shouldn't target Hamas, that's just another pet strawman genocide apologists roll out on a nightly basis to defend the indefensible so, yeah, you can have that back. Along with his brother strawman that Hamas cares more for its citizens than Israel does, another point I didn't make.

It's a clever propaganda tactic by the regime - rape of women is a highly emotive subject, almost a taboo topic and if one dares question the regime's narrative, they are immediately called a 'rape apologist' etc. They know exactly what they are doing here and who their audience is. It hardly seems a coincidence that there has been a flood of these rape accounts in the western media since Sunday, a full two months on from the October 7th atrocities.

What it does is stops people talking about the numerous war crimes and back to discussing October 7th again (also, the dehumanising of Palestinians yet again...they are nothing but savage beasts who hate women).

It's disgusting. No question.

As disgusting as the rapes and the murder of babies that the IDF and Ariel Sharon oversaw during the 1982 massacre in Sabra and Chatila refugee camps where over 1,700 innocent Palestinian people were massacred during Israels illegal and devastating invasion of Lebanon.

Any human life is sacred and neither the right wing Zionist goons in charge of Israel nor the fundamentalist murderers in Hamas care a jot.

Neither learn from history or other conflicts.

It's deeply depressing, especially for the innocent. On both sides.

How many Irish children should Israelis be allowed to murder because of those rapes?

They were horrific and nobody would condone the atrocities of Oct 7th. But do give me a number.

Were all the evil Palestinian toddlers at the forefront of the incursion? Or were some of them more involved in the planning stage?

The newspapers are reporting that the attack was in the planning for years so probably started before some of them were born, but perhaps they all got involved in the later stages?

The reality is that the Palestinian toddler had as much to do with those acts as the Irish toddler in Mullingar. So I would see the justification for the Israeli murdering the Palestinian toddler as being equal to his justification for murdering the Irish one. (i.e. zero justification)

But if you are happy to give the Israeli a pass to murder the Palestinian toddler because of the atrocity that happened on 7th October, then - if you are consistent - you would equally have to give him a pass to murder the Irish one.

In reality, you know the latter is ridiculous. But for some reason, you can't see the former is equally so. Cognitive dissonance

Israel soldiers are as capable as Hamas for inflicting rape on their victims. It is documented, and I posted here last night of a prominent Rabbi who said it was acceptable.

Given how the official Israeli story has shifted, changed, been retracted, downgraded since the start of this conflict, it is completely logical to question whatever narrative has been pushed on their extremely well polished PR supply chain. The while the first casualty of war is truth, man is capable of heinous things, on all sides. I don't get particularly aggrieved about the actions of individuals, on either side, for this reason. It happens, and in the greater scheme of things, while horrific for those who experience it, and whoever has to consider it, it is relatively inconsequential. There's evidence and claims of rape as a tool of war on both sides of this conflict. That is a fact.

But the sickening stuff around this conflict, and on this thread is to watch the excuses day after day after day for what Israel is doing. We've had flat out racism on this thread, we've had gleeful encouragement of Israel to 'finish the job' we've had complete ambivalence towards hostages captured by Israel while simultaneously justifying all their actions so as to rescue the hostages captured by Hamas we've had the victim blaming of a nation of children for the damage that Israel is inflicting on them. We've had the tried and trusted methods of holocaust denial and antisemitism accusations used continuously to stifle justified criticism of Israel. Much of the use of these tactics is particularly galling because it indicates that those who use them think Israel should be completely unanswerable to anyone. What a terrible idea.

And watching the western world support and justify the butchering of a nation of people is chilling in a whole new way beyond what I've seen over the last couple of decades in which I've been watching current affairs. There were the Rwanda and Kosovo instances of ethnic cleansing but the West weren't protagonists in that in the same way they are here.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation, those who took part in the attacks on Oct 7th and those who funded it, planned it should be all held accountable. But so too should every single warmonger on the side of Israel. There is only one side here watching whole generations being wiped out, one side being herded in to killing zones week after week, one side fighting without a route to safety, one side being offered a pitifully small amount of aid while the other is receiving billions in military equipment.

I agree that this wailing and gnashing of teeth about rape after all the other horrific tales which were later retracted or downgraded is just the latest tactic to distract from the killing of another 1000 people or whatever the last couple of days number is. The 'Hamas sympathizers' accusation for anyone horrified at the suffering of million is more of the same. Like, it's such an alien thought to some, they think anyone who considers Israel's actions in creating such a group must be evil themselves.

The masks have come off over the last couple of months, it is not a pleasant sight.

Using Hamas members' deaths as evidence that killing thousands of children was worth it doesn't really work very well for saying Israel are the good guys either. It didn't work for the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, and it didn't work for them in Vietnam.

Skips over the obvious whataboutery - an obvious attempt to obscure the whether Hamas committed atrocities or not. Because that is the discussion point you have challenged. Whataboutery about other atrocities says nothing about the truth of what Hamas did.

You do not want the truth about Hamas atrocities to be discussed, do not want them to be true - because you think Israel will use it as propaganda.

But that is not the same thing as the fact they occurred.

Hostages were raped and beaten with electrical cables yet you tried to spin the pro Hamas fake news they were treated humanely. The most you were prepared to say is that some hostages were treated poorly.

Poorly? Being raped or tortured is being treated 'poorly' according to your posts on how hostages were treated.

So no, all the stories of rape and atrocity by Hamas to civilians have not been discredited - that is another pro Hamas canard you spin here.

Children and civilians were mutilated deliberately on October 7th.

Israel did not have warning of an attack on the music festival - that is a pro Hamas conspiracy theory you spread in your posts without any reputable source. Again to try to take blame away from the Hamas murderers and rapists.

The excuses are in your post to exonerate Hamas of blame for actual atrocities they inflicted on civilins and try to pin the blame for civilian deaths on Israel. Some of the deaths may have been friendly fire in the chaos but you focus on this chaos ignoring that Hamas are culpable for targeting civilians deliberately and killing hundreds. Friendly fire incidents happen in every conflict - attacks like October 7th do not.

Rewarding or appeasing Hamas for taking hostages would only encourage more such attacks.

The reason why posters accuse you of Hamas sympathies is because it is evident in such posts.