Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Expect the usual weak "I've condemned Hamas" responsr before whatabouting some Israel atrocity from a heavily biased twitter account.

Details of Netanhayu's meeting with released hostages released by Israel's largest paid newspaper

Source

Thread in English

The massacre in Sabra and Shatila was conducted by Christians. The Israelis actually took responsibility after Sean McBride, the then Assistant to the UN General Secretary, concluded that they as the occupying power were responsible. Of course nobody was actually punished beyond Ariel Sharon having to resign as defence minister.

It's actually a good example of how the cycle of violence in the region is perpetuated. The attacks were in revenge for an earlier Palestinian massacre and the Lebanese Christian leader of the attacks had recently had his family and fiancé murdered by Palestinian militants.

Are you saying that you don't believe that these crimes were actually committed?

Hes been peddling that line since the begining blaming Israel for the Oct 7th attack

I think he knows they happened, disputes the scale and looks at it from the context of symbolic resistance against the women of Israel and a defiance its state power.

Context is everything it seems

There posts are truly fu78ing diabolical.

They probably in other circumstances would believe rape is wrong but so much of their core beliefs must be ditched in this.

I post enough on here for you to respond to what I say rather than what you want to pretend I say so if all of you guys could stop with the strawman nonsense it would be best.

And what about Israel is abso-fcuking-lutely the case when it is a two party conflict and genocide apologists want to paint one side as evil and the other as some sort of idle neighbour.

I have denied nothing, but I am not buying simple Israeli propaganda. It is a fact that the original comments in public and on here in the days immediately after oct 7th were about up to 40 babies and the manner in which they died. CNN issued a retraction for reporting on decapitated babies and said it had been misled by the Israel PM office. The death toll of 1400 was downgraded to 1200, again, that is a fact. Then it is a fact that not all of the 1200 were civilians. Then evidence that many may have died due to Israel's brute force response. So its a flat out lie to claim that nothing has been downgraded.

We've seen PM officials produce evidence of 'bomb making' instructions that Hamas had with them on Oct 7th which was a slide from a presentation available on line. We've had officials suggest a copy of mein kampf was found in a bombed childs bedroom (undamaged amid the destruction of course). We've seen them produce CGI videos of supposed multi-level facilities that they couldn't find in reality. We've seen them We've seen them ban hostages from talking to the media. What is all of this if not propaganda?

As I said in my post last night, one side is being obliterated in to history within this conflict. I have nothing but disgust for those who ignore that fact and instead build strawmen to justify their apathy to the suffering of millions.

I disagree - the below table illustrated that. Avg world population increased approx 100% between 1800 and 1920, from roughly 990m to 2bln in 1930. the muslim population more than doubled in that time. and increased 30% again between that and 1931.

Evidence here for people who both think that this conflict started on Oct 7th, and those who think sex crimes are solely inflicted on Israelis.

Just a couple of old IDF Soldiers talking, and laughing, about their own experiences and what they observed including using flame throwers on people, killing captured prisoners with a machine gun, killing people who surrendered and the rape of a child.

'Donald Trump' is offended by my username, grow up lad.

Context matters. It doesn't make what's happening good, it doesn't mean people shouldn't try to save the people being killed, but the equivalence you made was completely and utterly false.

1. Must be true - it's on twitter
2. Tantura massacre - yet another (like deir yassem) that might not hold up to historical scrutiny.
3. Horrible if it happened as described, war sucks.

And, if you want to split hairs, this thread's about the Hamas strike on Israel, that's the conflict that started on Oct 7th.

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world started a long time before that, arguably when Zionism as a political force was impacting the area by encouraging settlement starting in the 19th century.

He definitely cant be buying any Israel propaganda with the mountains of Hamas propaganda hes after splurging.

Those are fair guidelines by Moderator TheValeyard.  No NSFW footage - it could cause strife at work.

Elsewhere I just felt physically sick whie reading ‘duping delight’ posts about footage of deceased Palestinian children.  Dismissing a video clip of a very young child (dec) as fake “Pallywood”.  😥 The hospitals don’t have medication, they don’t have water…. Ambulances are being targeted taking the critically injured from a bombardment to a hospital.

The Guardian

by Manisha Ganguly, Elena Morresi, Ashley Kirk, Bryony Moore and Harvey Symons

Fri 1 Dec 2023 06.00 GMT

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/hospital-damage-in-gaza-during-israeli-offensive-a-visual-investigation

“An investigation has revealed the damage caused to hospitals, health facilities and ambulances in the northern Gaza Strip over 21 days in the course of the Israeli offensive against Hamas in Gaza.

“The Guardian collected and analysed more than 200 pieces of evidence including videos, photos, news footage and satellite imagery from between approximately 21 October and 11 November, and spoke to international humanitarian organisations, to investigate the damage caused to 10 of Gaza’s hospitals and health facilities. Of the 10, only two are functioning.

[...]

Al-Shifa hospital (Open above link to read)

3 November

“A convoy of ambulances was targeted by Israel outside the hospital, with one ambulance hit directly. Videos and photos of the aftermath show more than 10 injured people on the roadside.

“The IDF said the ambulance was being used by Hamas to transport its militants. A video of the inside of the ambulance shows a woman in a hospital gown lying wounded, with no weapons visible. Israel military officials have said Hamas would move its fighters unarmed in such instances.

Starry: I wanted to put up below link to: Mondoweiss.net (an independent website) who have published an article on CNN’s unverified report (see below). It was also carried by other syndicated media outlets including The Washington Post ..

‘CNN report claiming sexual violence on October 7 relied on non-credible witnesses, some with undisclosed ties to Israeli govt’

‘CNN’s Jake Tapper failed to adhere to professional and ethical journalism standards in a story claiming to offer proof of sexual violence by Palestinian fighters on October 7.’

December 1, 2023

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/cnn-report-claiming-sexual-violence-on-october-7-relied-on-non-credible-witnesses-some-with-undisclosed-ties-to-israeli-govt/

Starry: Nobody is denying heinous rape might have occurred in a war zone (Hamas' horrific attack on kibbutz October 7 - ‘Operation Al Aqsa Flood’).  However, the Israeli police admit there is a lack of forensic evidence.    The women weren’t questioned by trauma informed health agencies / professionals.  Making assertions of serious crimes without providing verifiable evidence is generally considered to be irresponsible.   Persons with integrity ensure that the information they share is accurate and make available supporting docs, etc. for public scrutiny… 

Israeli’s indiscriminate slaughter (a high number being women and children) is disproportionate….    It’s been called ‘a textbook case of genocide’ by leading Jewish and Israeli scholars of the Holocaust and genocide studies. 

Press Release

‘Genocide Scholars and 100 Palestinian and International Civil Society Organisations Call on Prosecutor Khan to Issue Arrest Warrants, Investigate Israeli Crimes and Intervene to Deter Incitement to Commit Genocide in Gaza’

20 October 2023

https://www.mezan.org/public/en/post/46295/Genocide-Scholars-and-100-Palestinian-and-International-Civil-Society-Organisations-Call-on-Prosecutor-Khan-to-Issue-Arrest-Warrants,-Investigate-Israeli-Crimes-and-Intervene-to-Deter-Incitement-to-Commit-Genocide-in-Gaza

Is what’s happening now a genocide?

https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.”  […]

[…]

“City University of New York professor Victoria Sanford compares what’s happening in Gaza to the killing or disappearance of more than 200,000 Mayans in Guatemala from 1960-1996, known as the Guatemalan genocide, which is the subject of her book Buried Secrets: Truth and Human Rights in Guatemala.   Mayans and Palestinians have both been subject to genocidal acts, she implies. “When we match them to the lived experience of people, there are similar circumstances…if we look at contemporary conflicts like the Israeli invasion of Palestine.”   […]

 “A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

October 16, 2023’

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide 

BreakThrough News:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_3BFPINnc&t=54s

^ ‘Israeli military official defends shooting live rounds at Palestinian children for throwing rocks’

Who are they and what's the source?

I’m going to have to stop looking at / reading anything about this “war”. It’s just too upsetting and I can’t see any outcome where they can both live peacefully. Even before 7th October, if there was a healthy Palestine where the country was freely able to trade with the world, people were educated and living beyond basic existence, they’d have far more capability to attack Israel. They’d be better able to afford weapons, defend themselves. It’s simply not a scenario Israel can allow. Since Israels reaction to 7th October that hatred has probably increased immeasurably. They’ve killed people’s children, parents, grandparents, siblings, they’ve destroyed their homes, traumatised them for life. They’ve created countless people who will be willing to give their lives for revenge. Ignoring Palestine for a second, just from Israels point of view this will be the legacy of this conflict. For decades to come, there will be people who will choose to die if it means they can take an Israeli with them.

The events on October 7th are still probably the most sickening. The fact that those killings / rapes were done by hand as opposed to pressing a button to drop a bomb does make them seem worse. I can’t imagine hating a country so much that I’d be able to do anything like that to another human being, let alone a child. But I don’t understand how the Israelis are still pushing those buttons to drop those bombs, every day since. Surely it haunts them that they’re doing this to children and families. I don’t understand how they can look at those people and not think of their own children and families. I can’t stop thinking about it.