Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

If that is true - not gonna lie, I am curious as to whats changed and why now?

It is.

We are neutral in the face of evil and we think that's a morally virtuous position to take so morality is a movable feast.

Genocide; he deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. Israel is behaving appallingly but they are a long way from genocide, despite the hyperbole to the contrary. Incidentally the nonsense from the Israeli Prime Minister about fighting for Western Values is also complete hyperbole.

The Internet and Social Media have undermined trust in the ideals of the West way more than the Iraq War. It's nonsense to suggest that it is a key event in the rise of the Far Right. The same vacuous idiots are just as likely to be drawn to the Far Left which is equally dangerous.

Rape is appalling no matter who does it. It's appalling when Hamas does it to innocent Israelis, and it's also appalling when IDF and Israeli security forces, and zionist and settler militia who operate with impunity and often rape and sexually degrade Palestinian women, of which there have been many credible allegations going back years

This story was from the month prior to October 7th

The policy of degrading and sexually abusing palestinian women is not new, having been a deliberate policy going back to the Nakba in 1947

I'm sure you'll agree, rape by Israeli forces and militia is just as horrific and wrong as rapes committed by Islamic militia operating in Hamas.

But apart from Rape, the IDF have been guilty of ongoing violations of international law going back decades. They cannot complain about Hamas war crimes while they refuse to even acknowledge the jurisdiction of the Hague on the sole basis that breaching those conventions is such a routine part of their SOPs that they know their own officials would be arrested and convicted if they ratified those treaties.

There were plenty of war crimes committed by Israel prior to the 7th of October. Collective punishment is a war crime. Israel engages in this routinely against the Palestinian people.

The IDF has been found on many many occasions to be using Palestinian children as Human shields (eg) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-human-shields-claim

The use of White Phosphorus as an incendiary weapon in areas populated by civilians is a clear war crime that the IDF are denying based on a technicality (that they were using the weapon as a smoke shield and that the appalling burns and excruciating deaths it causes were an unintended consequence) They even used WP to directly attack Schools and UN buildings that were clearly marked and identified as neutral and non combatant areas https://web.archive.org/web/20110511023004/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5575070.ece

Every time Israel decides to bomb Gaza or the West bank, inevitably they kill civilians vs combatants at a ratio of 10:1, and they routinely bomb ambulances, civilian buildings and the media. Not just in this 'war' but in all of the multitude of bombing campaigns Israel has waged against the Palestinians over the past number of decades.

Plus, the hundreds of Palestinians who are interned without any trial for lengthy periods of time, the blockades that restrict access to medicines, and medical treatments, the forced expulsion of Palestinians from land which is then annexed by Israeli settlers...

The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

When I said 'right wing media', I was referring to that in the UK and the US. As I said, I believe this is dangerous : support for war crimes makes Western governments look weak and immoral and lacking in credibility. It was actually reassuring to see many EU states at least push back against von der Leyen's words and gestures.

I don't usually answer stupid and disingenuous questions with zero thought put into them, but I'll give it a go if you insist.

"How many Irish children would you allow an Israeli to murder over the coming month in order to satisfy their bloodlust. "In the context of October 7th" if it makes you happy?"

Ok, in your hypothetical scenario that makes no sense, I wouldn't want an Israeli to kill any Irish children. But you used the word "allow", meaning that it would be in my control to stop them. If it were in my control to stop them I would do everything I could to stop them. In a situation with 1 Israeli trying to kill a child in Ireland it could probably (but not guaranteed) be prevented without killing any innocents. But if you think that scales to the Israel Palestine conflict you're very naïve, there's too many other factors at play.

If that answer isn't what you were looking for it's only because your question was terrible. Recompile it and try again.

What on earth makes you think that is what Rosahane was saying?

Okay.

I agree that support for criminal acts because you are sympathetic to the ideology of the the group that carried them out is a bad thing. When political leaders do it it undermines democratic values. It's something that happens on both the left and the right.

That's one of the many reasons I can't stand Michael D Higgins as his support for murdering oppressive left wing dictators is disgusting and not aligned to the values of the State he heads or the Constitution he is supposed to be upholding (a duty he's consistently treated with contempt).

It's "suddenly" become a story because of the extent of denial and downplaying of what happened. It's not that hard to understand. At this rate, Israel are going to have to make public all the footage they've been screening to journalists just to shut the denialists like you up. No doubt, you'd have have nothing to say about the war crimes, just how awful and manipulative Israel is for showing the world what was done to them.

Some of apologists on here are starting to sound like 9/11 truthers combined with holocaust deniers. They're pretty much using all the same arguments (they let it happen, the Israeli government supported hamas, not as many died as claimed, ok some bad things happened but not as bad as what is claimed, where's the evidence etc etc)

Similar to Patrick Pearse's famous call for genocide at the grave of O'Donovan Rossa - "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace".

In the current climate, we also have a lot of people holding the genocidal position that occupied parts of Ukraine should be free from Russian control. Why is nobody lobbying our government to have he people making such calls held accountable by the ICC?

Pearse was a nutter who was obsessed with blood sacrifice and thought that the million dead young men in Europe was a glorious sacrifice to Nationalism. James Connolly described him as a blithering idiot.

He didn't call for genocide though and his Ireland wasn't subject to Sharia Law.

The man was chosen for that position as he had negotiated the release of tens of thousands from German concentration camps.

I posted on this thread earlier about the zionists similarly assassinating a Dublin born member of the Guinness family who had a position in the British government!

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make time and time again on this thread.

Rape and killing and torture is horrific. No matter who does it. And the taking of hostages as well. But we've seen very concrete examples on here that suggests that some people view the lives of Palestinians as being vastly inferior in value than the lives of Israelis. This last 24 Hrs and the condemnation of acts of rape on Oct 7th while ignoring the evidence that Israel is capable and guilty of similar is a case in point.

We saw similar previously with posters saying that the only thing that was necessary for the conflict to end was for the release of the hostages held by Hamas. They refused to even acknowledge the tenfold numbers of Palestinians held without charge by Israel (not to mention the numbers held under charge).

And as I pointed out last night, only one side is being obliterated here and seeing their livelihoods, homes, family and even their own lives just disappearing in a cloud of rubble from Israeli bombs. I don't understand how the people who are outraged and accusing others of downplaying rape don't see their own hypocrisy in how they are ok with the suffering of Palestinians.

At least once daily I include in a post that I; 'the attacks of Oct 7th were horrific, that I condemn those involved and that everyone involved should be persecuted,' and yet am accused of being a Hamas terrorist sympathizer. And those accusing me of this watching Israel target and kill Palestinians consistently at a rate of 10:1 or greater, and these people never call for restraint.

If you hear about 110 people being killed, and target your anger only on those who killed ten of them, ignoring the deaths of the other 100, you should have a serious examination of your conscience in my view.

(And all of this outside of the subjugation and persecution and loss of land that Palestinians have to suffer as well as being targeted and killed).