Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

Bobson Dugnutt · 06-12-2023 9:12am

Jesus, whoever in SF decided this was a good idea would want to be stood down. Not too sure all is well in SF tbh. Huge amount of missteps.

markodaly · 06-12-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441229#Comment_121441229

But for years SF have been on the "Anyone but FF/FG"

If or when SF will 'win' the next election, their supporters will be wondering why there are FF ministers in government.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461178#Comment_121461178

Not sure what you mean here or if there is a question?

Why would they be 'wondering'....is this coalition going to be arranged in secret?

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461178#Comment_121461178

No they won't. SF were pleading with FF and FG to talk to them about government formation after the last election and have been open about their willingness to do business with either after the next one. Can you quote me a single instance of an SF member or supporter publicly objecting to this stance? "We have our preferred coalition partners but if the numbers for that do not materialise we are willing to talk to anyone" is the standard, mature line on government formation for parties to take in fractured, multi-party political systems such as ours. There is no reason to believe the overwhelming majority of SF grassroots are not on board with that.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461299#Comment_121461299

If anything it would be FFers surprised, they were told there would never be a coalition with either FG or SF.

Martin opened the door to a coalition with SF and actually coalesced with FG.

The FF FG electorate just threw their eyes to heaven and ignored the lies that they'd been told. Irish sleeveen politics and it's enablers, ya gotta love it.

notJoeJoe · 06-12-2023 1:28pm

At the moment it looks like the Social Democrats are going to eclipse Labour and stand as the main centre-'left' party in the Dáil (although with Labour's rightward shift maybe that has already happened).

Looking at recent polling (keep in mind the next election is still over a year away), Sinn Féin will not be able to form a government with only one partner. They need a senior and junior partner to form a majority. I am wondering if the next government will be Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and either the Greens or the Social Democrats. The Greens are an obvious choice for the politics of a SF/FF government. On the other hand, if the Greens perform badly (which they are expected to at the minute) maybe the Social Democrats will be picked, making SF supporters seeing FF in government again as more palatable.

I might be too cynical, though.

Bobson Dugnutt · 06-12-2023 2:54pm

Well that’s a SF and PbP Marxist utopia government ruled out then.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461719#Comment_121461719

Standards opposition move re abortion, climate change, you name it. It's part of why SF find it very difficult to stake out even any pragmatic position that could be tarred as 'right wing' in any shape or form...

maccored · 06-12-2023 3:17pm

weird how they've become the most popular party in the country with everyone not wanting to vote for them

Bobson Dugnutt · 06-12-2023 3:22pm

They’ve lost 8 points of support in the Ireland Thinks opinion polls. Mary Lou’s popularity has collapsed and she looked bored and uninterested yesterday. Whoever decided it was a good idea to call the motion would want to be demoted tbh. Spectacular fiasco on the part of SF.

jh79 · 06-12-2023 3:25pm

Is there a complete lack of self awareness in SF. How did a party with criminals in their ranks and has members that openly consort with criminals think they could lecture others on law and order?

maccored · 06-12-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461956#Comment_121461956

yeah. lads the shinner's time is coming no how much whinging there is on boards about it

jh79 · 06-12-2023 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462092#Comment_121462092

Still though,how can criminals lecture others on law and order?

maccored · 06-12-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462108#Comment_121462108

you should have asked haughey and the lads. you need to read up on irish history as far as 'criminals' in the dail go. the british have been doing it for years

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461299#Comment_121461299

No they didn't, Sinn fein seen covid coming, knew it was going to be a disaster, not sure what happened them after that. The Green Party went to Sinn Fein first and nothing. Once the FF/FG/Greens discussions started they came up saying it wasn't fair. At the time it was released then Mary Lou had covid and one of the reasons why they didn't get in contact with other parties.

Problem here was it was supposed to be Pearse and I think Gerry Adams doing the negotiations from recollection.

So trying to say SF was pleading with parties is incorrect in my opinion. Article below in regards to that. Remember at some stage, can't remember when but PBP came out with a public letter asking why SF had never been in contact.

Article in terms of Sinn Fein confirming they talked to Greens in early Feb yet nothing.

Who exactly was SF pleading with?

https://news.sky.com/story/irish-election-sinn-fein-to-exclude-fine-gael-and-fianna-fail-from-new-coalition-mcdonald-11930261

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51468778

Bobson Dugnutt · 06-12-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462129#Comment_121462129

No other party has a fella like this sitting on their benches:

HerrKuehn · 06-12-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462242#Comment_121462242

But, but ... what about some government TD's bogus planning application? 😂

I think immigration is causing some of SF's more "traditional'' supporters to move away from the party. I am sure Mary Lou got a bit of a shock the other week in her car. The problem for SF is that they would risk alienating the gullible young middle class they have attracted recently if they try to change course and go against immigration. I was thinking they would likely form a government with someone next time around, make an absolute bollox of it with their amateur TDs (David "up the ra" Culinane would have been sacked in any other party, but he was promoted to health spokesman in SF, such is their level of depth he is regarded as one of their heavy hitters). I am now thinking most likely they will not be part of the next government.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462335#Comment_121462335

SF have spent a lot of years flip flopping around and hiding their actual policies. The carbon tax is an excellent example with most of their supporters believing they plan to remove it when in fact they don't.

Immigration now is a huge issue and I expect them to flip flop around for another few weeks trying to cover up what they actually want. Maybe their supporters have woken up?

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462173#Comment_121462173

Who exactly was SF pleading with?

https://extra.ie/2020/04/07/news/politics/sinn-fein-government-talks

Okay maybe pleading isn't quite the mot juste but SF clearly wanted to give the impression, retrospectively anyway, that they were very much up for a deal with FF or FG and those parties had anti-democratically frozen them out.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462335#Comment_121462335

They are not leaking to FF FG. I don't think SF will panic over a leak of a few % points.

VinLieger · 06-12-2023 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462523#Comment_121462523

They both had ruled out a coalition with SF prior to the election so its a lie to claim they were being dishonest with voters while they were literally keeping an election promise.

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462537#Comment_121462537

?? We know they were being dishonest. The leader of FF said he would never coalesce with FG and the Leader of FG likened putting Martin as Taoiseach to putting Delaney back in charge of the FAI.

What happened?

*Martin opened the door to SF too.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 5:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462523#Comment_121462523

That was in April. The election was on 8th Feb. They met with Green party around 24th.

1st March PBP was writing to Socail Dem, Sinn Fein, Independents etc about forming a government. Time lines don't add up for Sinn Fein complaining about forming a government.

In my opinion Sinn Fein had no interest in forming a government, if they did why didn't they get Greens etc to join up with them? It was easier to just blame FF and FG while sitting back while covid played out. To me it was clear they didn't think a government would last covid because of the effect on people and most would have said the same at the time.

jh79 · 06-12-2023 5:48pm

Didn't PBP complain that when they asked for a meeting with SF about forming a government all they got in return was a copy of their election manifesto?

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462558#Comment_121462558

In my opinion Sinn Fein had no interest in forming a government, if they did why didn't they get Greens etc to join up with them?

I think they were sort of going through the motions. Their sharper operators could see the 'left' government wasn't a runner.

https://www.thejournal.ie/o-broin-sinn-fein-5007101-Feb2020/

Maybe they were half-heartedly hoping FF could be brought on board later in some form of confidence & supply...

Bobson Dugnutt · 06-12-2023 5:55pm

A government with PbP would last less than a week. You cannot compromise with Trots. They have an almost religious belief in their world view and you are either a true believer or not. It’s why they have so many splits - heretics are thrown out for questioning aspects of the sacred texts.

Clo-Clo · 06-12-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462642#Comment_121462642

If they got the Greens, PBP etc onboard then FF & FG had no alternative. Then FF would have two option, form a government with SF or go back to the polls.

In the end SF didn't get a single party to agree to go into government with them. That wasn't FF or FG fault.

Will they be able to this time? it doesn't bode well. Especially if they think rolling out this guy to help with negotiations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/21/gerry-adams-will-be-sinn-fein-negotiator-leaked-brief-reveals

FrancieBrady · 06-12-2023 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462620#Comment_121462620

Unless RBB changed his story, here he is very optimistic after meeting with MLMD

Mr Boyd Barrett insisted that a left -wing, government was still a “real and living possibility”, as Sinn Féin held initial meetings with smaller parties and groups.

The Dun Laoghaire TD met Ms McDonald on Wednesday afternoon with the party’s Northern Ireland MLA Gerry Carroll, on behalf of People Before Profit, but without the Solidarity element of the group they operate with in the Dáil.

Here's MLMD's take on the meeting.

She has met with representatives of People Before Profit this afternoon, following a meeting with the Green Party this morning. She will meet with the Social Democrats tomorrow.

Commenting following this afternoon’s meeting, Ms. McDonald said:

“Sinn Féin wants to form a government of change and our objective is a government that builds homes, cuts rents and freezes them, reduces the pension age to 65, gives workers and families a break, and advances Irish Unity.

“This afternoon I met with Richard Boyd Barrett TD and Gerry Carroll MLA of People Before Profit, and we had a good discussion about the potential for a government of change and the issues that might form part of a programme for government.

“We have agreed to stay in touch over the coming days.

“I have also arranged to meet with the Social Democrats tomorrow.”

highpressisbest · 06-12-2023 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421950#Comment_121421950

Mass immigration is deeply unpopular with SF’s core voters. Where there is a viable alternative like Carol Nolan, SF will lose votes on this.

Loafing Oaf · 06-12-2023 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462660#Comment_121462660

That's not how it works. Even in the unlikely event SF had secured (ahem) provisional agreement with the rest of the left on the formation of a government, it's not like those other parties would be signing an oath in blood. If they had got to that point but were still well short of the numbers to form a government I think it's highly likely the next move in the dance would have been for the Greens (always ready to bestow their favours in return for a few more bike lanes) to 'listen to offers' from FF & FG.

Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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