Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

It will all depend on the actual proposed wording, but they have had long enough to make sure it is correct

So currently aticle 41.2 states:

1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

Now I see both sections being replaced with:

"The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision."

Now I'm all for this referendum but what jumps out is the difference in definition of support for such a person to stay at home being amended from "The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged" to "shall strive to support such provision".

This is quite watered down and could have wider implications to family supports provided by the state going forward.

Ever since Charlie McCreevys "Tax Individualisation" changes in the budget in 2000 there has been a defacto war on single income households in Ireland. It was hailed as a step forward in employment equality but when you scratch the surface all it did is use a stick as opposed to a carrot in order to "force" households into a position of requiring two incomes to survive by removing the ability to fully transfer all tax credits and full standard rate cutoff allowance between couples.

Once again I must state I fully support removing archaic wording from the constitution but on more than one occasion in the past the government has managed to marginalise single income households all under the guise of "equality".

On the other hand, in hindsight, with all the bitty adjustments to the constitution we've been making over the past 15 years or so, would it not have been better to scrap Dev's Constitution entirely some time round 2010 and replace it something more streamlined and with less archaic concepts and language.

I couldn’t see a Government proposing a referendum if they weren’t already entirely confident in its passing tbh. Voter turnout is likely to be much higher by combining the two amendments into one referendum as opposed to the idea of holding a second and separate one only for the proposal to be rejected.

They held a referendum on Seanad reform that they lost.

I voting no, more as a vote of no confidence in the current state of politics more than anything.

It's got nothing to do with this referendum but you thought you'd muddy the waters anyway.

I was the sole earner in our household for over ten years, your talk of a "war on single income households" is a load of complete hoop - and nothing to do with the constitution either.

You mean a protest vote, like Brexit was for many? That was really mature.

Your problem here is the complete lack of any rational connection between the vote you cast and the statement you wish to make. You could just as meaningfully categorise a "yes" vote as a vote of no confidence in the current state of politics. Either way, nobody but you knows what statement you think you are making (and if nobody knows what statement you are making, what is the point of making it?) and your vote will still have an effect in relation to a question that you evidently don't care about.

Why not abstain as a protest, and let people who care about this issue decide it one way or the other? The protest is just as ineffective, but probably less harmful.

Until those wanting me to vote Yes can tell me what a woman is I will also be voting No.

I don’t think anyone’s suggested it was only ever women who worked in the home. It’s just a fact that 90% of those people in 2022 who recorded their status as looking after the home/family, are women:

• Of all people who recorded their economic status as ‘looking after the home/family’ in 2022, 90% were female.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp7/census2022profile7-employmentoccupationsandcommuting/principaleconomicstatus/

I don’t imagine the referendum as it was expected, or as it’s worded, will have any bearing whatsoever on that statistic. Far more likely economic conditions will have a more pronounced influence, as they did since the figures were recorded in 2016 when, while the numbers of men doing so doubled in 10 years, it was still 98% were women:

• Nearly all of the people (98%) who were looking after home or family in 2016 were women although the number of men in this grouping nearly doubled in the ten years up to 2016, rising from 4,900 to 9,200.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-wamii/womenandmeninireland2016/socialcohesionandlifestyles/

You were hardly bucking the trend HD when that 98% represents nearly half a million women, but at least your oversight is forgivable, whereas Roderic? I might suggest a trip to specsavers for a new pair of prescription lenses, because the ones he’s viewing modern Irish society through appear to be a tad out of focus when he still comes out with this kind of stuff:

Making the announcement, Minister for Integration Roderic O'Gorman said that "a woman's place is where ever she wants it to be".

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1pjlmgp1ro.amp

It might have sounded more profound had he not just been paraphrasing Leo from five years earlier:

The Taoiseach said “a woman’s place is where she wants it to be and that is not necessarily in the home”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/a-woman-s-place-is-where-she-wants-it-to-be-taoiseach-says-1.3560667

To you share that data please? I'm particularly interested in how marriage is statistically the best way to raise a family, and how women should stay at home.

Doesn't make sense to me. There are many broken marraiges, bad parents etc. If two people are raising a family it shouldn't make a difference if they are married, similarly women stayng at home? A bit outdated.

If the choice was be married and be a stay at home mother, or civil partnership and two incomes. By gut says the latter is affords a far better life.