Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

No they don't.

Anyway, lots of people make promises that they later break. We can all list doctors that have done bad things, just as we can all list solicitors and plumbers and teachers and priests and civil servants who have done bad things. The notion that a group of people is somehow more ethical than another group of people simply because of the job they choose to do is ridiculous. The notion that calling out an individual because of their behaviour blackens everyone who chooses to do the same job is also nonsense.

Yep - We shouldn't take the word of doctors.

You literally just said "I have no problem questioning any person..."

Any person... regardless of whether they are a doctor or not.

And in earlier posts you listed multiple reasons why we shouldn't take the word of doctors as 'gospel'.

You are just proving their point and are arguing against yourself now and have to resort to whataboutery.

No, I understood. It's just that it doesn't address the question I asked or further your argument in any way.

I think you're right. he really is a loathsome person.

Yep. The hostages are only one part. He needs to insure that there's no danger of further attacks. And for him, and apparently the majority of the Israeli population, that means the complete destruction of hamas. I think it's also coupled with a belief that if they hammer the people of gaza hard enough, it will break their will and prevent hamas regaining strength. That's a crazy idea to me. There's so many dead and probably tens of thousands maimed. Even if the population of gaza hated Hamas, this onslaught will just radacalise so many more.

We've seen what it looks like here in Ireland. Events like bloody sunday managed to kill a peaceful civil right movement and drove support to the IRA. Even if Israel kills every single member of hamas, a new armed resistance movement will arise because of the pain and suffering that's being inflicted on the people of Gaza.

“the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy”.

Oh no, a "check your privilege" person.

Bomber Command under Arthur 'Bomber' Harris had a deliberate strategy of terrorising the German population by bombing civilian parts of the cities. We're not seeing anything different here (the one major difference perhaps is that the international community is fully aware this deliberate bombing of innocent civilians is completely forbidden under international law).

It's worth noting and summarizing what happened here over the last 36 hours or so.

Various posters managed collectively to paint the picture that the worst events that have happened in the middle east in the last couple of months was the rape of women on the Oct 7th. It's not the rape that is the issue, if it was solely that alone, they'd acknowledge Israeli capabilities to commit similar crimes. Its the fact that it was done to Israeli women and any crime that is inflicted on Israeli's is orders of magnitude more serious than anything that might be done to any Palestinian.

I don't know if they are that concerned to the wellbeing of Israeli's as a matter of course, for some that probably is the case. But for most, my view is that it is because their opponents in this conflict are Muslim Arabs and so are lower in importance than Jewish whites and so the evil party is identified.

I know what I am saying, I don't say it lightly, but to not say it would be to not advocate for the community that is literally being butchered as we talk about it abstractedly (at least some do) on here. Also it would be allowing a particular narrative misaligned with reality to dominate. That is still largely happening given the views of western governments towards the conflict, but still, what else can I do only challenge it.

I've been reading similar to what I've read in the last 36 hours for weeks now as people both ignore the suffering of Palestinians, and call anyone repulsed by Israeli genocidal intent a Hamas Terrorist Sympathiser for having the audacity to call Israel out on its actions. As well as the rapid fire use of antisemitism and holocaust denier accusations which are utilized to incredible effectiveness to stifle being held to account.

And as this 'discussion' carries on, Israel is continuing to displace, target, bomb and kill Palestinians. It is intending to flood whatever tunnels are there with sea water which will have significant ecological impacts. It's leaders is pushing plans to 'thin' what remains of the Gazan population and influential commentators within the country are calling for them to annex it completely.

I think he is entitled to his opinion and I don't think the Israeli will any time soon have a good opinion of us. The Israeli press seems to be one hundred percent behind the slaughter of innocents in Gaza so I'm not really bothered what they print about us.

What's far worse than defending the Israeli's ripping the limbs off babies and crushing the skulls of babies?

Ah here, we are reaching nonsensical levels when people are trying to make out that tolerance of LGBTQ+ is somehow similar between Gaza and Israel. The Hamas regime in Gaza treats gay people far far worse than anything ever in Ireland. Iran, Saudi and Yemen are the closest regimes to Hamas, and all have the death penalty for homosexual acts.

Next you'll be telling me that Gazan courts requiring women to get the permission of a man before travelling were only a bit of fun.

I think the world would be a better place if we put the same value on all communities, on all innocents lives. Israel is not doing that.

You can take a swipe at European values, but why you would do it in this instance, in defending Israel who have killed 6k kids in the last month I dont know.

I think we can understand well why the Israelis are doing what they are doing.

So it seems. We had one poster who wants me to prove the doctors were lying, that they actually knew about the tunnels!!!!!

Think about it. First there were no tunnels, then there were tunnels built by the Israelis but not under the hospitals, then there were tunnels built by Israelis under the hospitals that Hamas were not using for operations, then there were tunnels built by Israelis under the hospitals that might have been used for operations but there is no evidence to prove it, now we have the position that there were tunnels built by Israelis under the hospitals that might have been used for operations but there is no evidence to prove it and the doctors who have been telling us from the start that there were no tunnels may have been unaware that there were tunnels even though they were built by the Israelis decades ago and have signs of recent usage!!!!!!!!!

There are serious questions about what the Israelis are doing, but the non-stop barrage of ever-changing Hamas propaganda on here promulgated 24/7 by a small selection of posters is not allowing those serious questions to be discussed rationally.

We are not forcing our values on Israel or Gaza. What are you even talking about? We are criticising their conduct on war on innocent civilians that is all. As we do with Hamas, Russia, America, China, Saudi Arabia. Is that not permissible in your opinion?