Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

Options
1…1112141617…124

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,485 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465689#Comment_121465689

    "Those who are amending the law" include people with a diversity of views about transgender issues. It may well be that those who oppose any change similarly have diverse opinions.

    Besides, to the extent that there is disagreement or dispute about what a woman is, that's clearly a consideration that weighs in favour of removing references to women from the Constitution. if we leave in provisions that employ terms whose fundamental meaning is disputed, then we can't know how those provisions will be interpreted or what effect they will have. So if the poster was seriously concerned about this, he would be urging a 'yes' vote, not a 'no' vote.

    The poster is plainly attempting to hijack the thread to discuss his own hobby horse. My response was intended to show that, even on its own terms, the hijack made no sense.



  • Options
    #393
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'll be encouraging everyone I know to vote yes. It's important that Ireland's constitution reflects Irish society and takes a step away from the backwards, Catholic Church model that makes us look ridiculous.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #394
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465332#Comment_121465332

    I provided plenty in a previous post if you could be arsed reading it.



  • Options
    #395
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,949 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    On reflection, now that the precise texts are available, I will be voting no. I am socially liberal, but I do not support removing any special rights or protections granted to mothers specifically. I know it's 2023 -soon 2024 - and gender is being deconstructed but whether you are a man or a purple monkey dishwasher (for clarity- this is a simpsons quote and nothing slanderous at all to anyone), you cannot give birth to a child or fulfill the role of a mother. I am a man, and with 2 teens in the house, the role of their mother is very important and one I would not want to impinge upon. Equally by diluting the role of the mother, my own role is diluted. There's nothing wrong with being a proud mother, and accepting that your equally valuable role as a father is not the same as a mother.



  • Options
    #396
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465662#Comment_121465662

    They told us "just vote yes for the poor gays so they can marry" then they shoehorn in the GRA in the same year. Ironic that they intend to remove the word woman from the constitution, we all know where this is leading; lesbians with a penis, pregnant men and the destruction of the mother to be replaced with birthing person.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465810#Comment_121465810

    A link dump you almost certainly didn't read. I'm not touching that.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465823#Comment_121465823

    And there it is, the sanctimonious moaning. Nothing negative came of either referenda cited as examples except for conservatives getting upset about absolutely nothing.

    We're done here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #398
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465747#Comment_121465747

    Unmarried fathers are not automatically the father of their children. Neither are they and their children deemed to be a family.

    Why should he not get the same rights as women? Why should his family not be afforded the same rights as families with married parents? Why shouldnt he be afforded the same rights and protections as mothers?



  • Options
    #399
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465838#Comment_121465838

    Men's rights folk care about hating feminism and women, not helping men. I should know, I was into that crap for a few years before the scales fell from my eyes.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #400
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465812#Comment_121465812

    No one is taking anything away.

    This is like the divorce thing all over, hello divorce, goodbye daddy! Or same sex marriage, would basically do away with hetro marriage.

    Giving someone additional rights, does not take those same rights away from someone else



  • Options
    #401
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465833#Comment_121465833

    I doubt Kathleen stock would be anyone's idea of a conservative. Interesting how when asked to produce evidence , and when produced, it's dismissed. Are you not a science mod? Surely if I posit a hypothesis, produce evidence you are obliged to accept it or produce evidence to the contrary?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465851#Comment_121465851

    This is only true if the government were proposing to ban hetersexual marriage. It isn't. Let's have some proof that this article of the constitution has tangible benefits to women and children. Whenever you're ready.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #403
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    I voted yes to marriage equality. Yes to repeal the 8th. Yes to the divorce referendum. I don't regret my reasons for voting yes but I regret not knowing more about the people asking me to vote yes; and their motives.

    I do not trust any politician anymore and nor will I ever again.

    I will be voting no on any future changes to the constitution.

    Nothing is ever done by the Government to benefit the joe soaps, as far as I'm concerned.

    That's my personal feeling on it. Everyone is entitled to their views.



  • Options
    #404
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,674 ✭✭✭Allinall


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465892#Comment_121465892

    That’s frankly a ridiculous stance to take.

    Vote on the issue.



  • Options
    #405
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465901#Comment_121465901

    Exactly. The idea that a government can only be malevolent is as stupid as slavishly believing everything politicians say. It's usually a cover for laziness.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #406
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465892#Comment_121465892

    You do know this is based on a report from the citizens assembly



  • Options
    #407
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465823#Comment_121465823

    Except they were both unrelated. GRA didn't require constitutional changes....



  • Options
    #408
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465812#Comment_121465812

    This will indeed be the position of many including myself. If something ain't broken, don't try to fix it to suit some new agenda.



  • Options
    #409
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465929#Comment_121465929

    So? What matters is the view of Irish voters as a whole - the wisdom of the crowd.



  • Options
    #410
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465871#Comment_121465871

    I provided it. Peer reviewed Research shows that biological married parents provide the BEST families for children and mothers that stay at home provide the BEST educational outcomes for children. Deny the science all you want. By leaving it as is we are telling the world we support women's rights to be mothers first and foremost we are also telling the world that we recognise the best possible family is a marriage between the two biological parents. Of course this doesn't reflect the reality for many but, should all our laws be based in reality and not on aspirations? We know most people do a wee bitof speeding every now and then in the car, doesn't mean we should reflect that in the road traffic legislation.



  • Options
    #411
    xzanti
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 10,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭xzanti


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465917#Comment_121465917

    When you say "malevolent". What do you mean by that?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466004#Comment_121466004

    You don't think children and fathers deserve rights and protections?



  • Options
    #413
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465965#Comment_121465965

    I would think that a random selection of citizens would put forward a fairly typical view of the whole electorate.



  • Options
    #414
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466004#Comment_121466004

    You didn't.

    You have nothing so we're done here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Options
    #415
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465944#Comment_121465944

    Neither did gay marriage, but interesting how gra wasn't put to a vote.



  • Options
    #416
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,949 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465838#Comment_121465838

    I very much am in favor of advocating for more and better fathers' rights. This is not the issue at hand here.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465849#Comment_121465849

    This is not the divorce issue, nor is it SSM or repeal. Don't muddy the waters. Vote on the issue at hand. I fundamentally believe that the mother's place in the family is something special that is currently demarcated as such in the constitution. I don't think we should remove women's rights to be a mother by saying anyone is a mother.

    The constitution is a very important document which ultimately governs all other jurisdiction in the country. Changes for changes sake are not needed.



  • Options
    #417
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466027#Comment_121466027

    Yes but research shows that a biological mother and father , married where the father works and the mother is allowed to be a mother is the BEST type of family and as such should be the only one we should promote and aspire to.



  • Options
    #418
    TokTik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭TokTik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465757#Comment_121465757

    What rights and protections do men caregivers currently not have that women do?



  • Options
    #419
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭crossman47


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121464473#Comment_121464473

    Why not just delete the article which many people feel offensive (although it was in fact meaningless and never had any effect)? Then forget about replacing it. There will be all sorts of squabbles over things like the definition of family with red herrings plentiful and voters may well use the opportunity to give the government a kicking. Constitutional change is open to misunderstanding. Only yesterday in the Irish Times, a professor (no less) said 66% of voters voted to allow abortions up to 12 weeks. They did not (I was one who voted Yes). They voted to remove an article and replace it with one giving the Oireachtas power to legislate. They may have known what would follow but were not asked to vote on it. Even the relevant minister appeared not to understand - when debating legislation he said "This is what people voted for!).



  • Options
    #420
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,949 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466027#Comment_121466027

    What rights do children or fathers not currently have, that are afforded to them in the proposed amendment? Note that that is a 2 part question, I'm not asking what rights are missing, I'm asking what missing rights are added by this specific proposed amendment.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    Flaneur OBrien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Really is showing why we need feminism as a whole. No one else is standing up for men's rights in the home.



Advertisement