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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Sounds like hell and a meat grinder for both sides east of the Dnipro river.


    Post edited by .Donegal. on


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    That Left Wing twat just couldn’t help himself



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    The BBC is not naming him to protect his identity.

    His account, sent via a messaging app, speaks of troop boats blown out of the water, inexperienced reinforcements and a feeling of abandonment by Ukraine's military commanders.

    How would the BBC be able to verify the nationality of this soldier?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    They don't really want that. That stuff about the border security is a load of bollox.

    It is pure obstructionism IMO (and a small contingent of quite noisy and determined Putin/Russia friendly Republican politicians).

    Must be worrying for the countries allied to the US, with more formal security guarantees etc. (e.g. NATO members, likes of S. Korea and Taiwan) watching this play out in their politics.

    I don't think spunking billions on buying the USs military toys is going to save them from the growing flakiness/irrationality of the US political system, and words on paper only mean stuff if the signatories have integrity and will honour them.





  • What I find unsettling is that every Republican senator voted against this bill. Every single one. If this is in anyway indicative of backing for Ukraine amongst the larger Republican support base, then Ukraine needs to pray for a Biden victory next year IMO.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Could be cowardice (?). Perhaps they would get rounded on by others in the party as a traitor/"RINO" for backing anything that comes from the Democrats and Biden? So you get a lockstep.

    Anyway the Trump/MAGA type Republicans and their core vote don't care much about democracy in the US any more (winning any way you can and holding political power is the higher principle).

    So the old belief of defending it overseas (e.g. by doing the obvious/normal thing looking at all of post WW2 US policy and helping Ukraine) is going to be even more malleable + their instincts are to isolationism anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I don't see the issue with adding more support for better border control in the current climate. Surely democrats would be happy to add?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Probably his Ukrainian military identification and passport or similar,

    There's been claims previously that the majority of the Ukrainian marine's can't actually swim ,but they are expected to fight on water and from boats it's not a great situation for any of them involved,but I've noticed a lot of the foreign volunteers were drafted into the Ukrainian marine's , likely to help shore them up and give them much needed experienced soldiers



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The GOP routinely vote down measures that Democrats propose - it's not necessarily indicative of anti Ukrainian support, more the game of politics where if the Democrats propose it, it gets rejected. you've seen it with everything from cheaper Baby Formula to more Veteran support.





  • But according to that article, Biden said earlier in the day that he was willing to make "significant compromises" on border security in order to get the bill passed. But they went ahead and voted no anyway. Are Republicans using the border issue as a smokescreen because they don't want to send more aid to Ukraine?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The latest list of equipment the Ukrainian are now asking for has raised some eyebrows in a behind closed doors meeting,

    F16s nothing new some expected in 2025

    F18s

    AH 64 D Apache helicopters

    C130 J Hercules

    C 117 Globemaster heavy lift aircraft

    THAAD high altitude air defence systems

    Abrams tanks (more)

    Multiple drones not just the usual small types

    And more munitions,


    I can imagine seeing Republicans lawmakers spitting out their morning coffee reading some of that, it would be interesting to see why they suddenly want heavy lift aircraft, huge risk they would be shot down pretty quickly in any offensive.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Probably are yeah. All Biden can do is give them full support for border control and see do the weasel's come up with another excuse. I think most Americans would agree with support for Ukraine and the border issue.


    With American support waning and the far right dude winning in Netherlands. Will this make it harder for Ukraine to obtain fighter jets even if it's just 15 or 20 of them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,205 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @Gatling according to one comment I saw on Twitter, a lot of that equipment is due to be replaced in the near future and perhaps this is a "before you scrap/decommission the following, we have use for them" type of list?

    Could the request for Heavy lift aircraft be about getting armour across the Dnipro? Or simply about being able to improve logistics capability?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They seem to be asking the latest of everything not the stuff due to be scrapped, as far as I'm aware they have no where to land heavy lift aircraft outside of their main airports so I can't see them being used to cross the Dnipro unless they are planning to drop cargo from altitude and even at that they are an easy target to hit with long Range air2 air missles, or drone even



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I read that BBC interview where it sounds like hell for Ukrainian marines over the river. And a lot of reports suggesting man power is an issue. But the Russians they interview from that front shared the exact same sentiment. Both sides suffer here.

    Regardless I've noticed a lot of worrying commentary from the Ukrainian side. Should Ukraine at risk of being stretched pause any notions of attacking Russian lines especially in the East? Go into full defensive mode even if this means for the next 4 or 5 year's. Preserve as much man power and equipment as possible even if that means no ground regained. Ensure you can last a long war.


    I have to agree with the NATO advice in hindsight. Ukraine should be focusing 100% of their attacking efforts in Kherson. Not over 3 or 4 different areas. Shortening the gap to the sea of Azov is worth 10 time's shortening the gap to Luhansk or taking a settlement in the East.

    Their efforts this year gained about 10km at certain points. But they didn't commit most of their Western gear or focus in a single area. Maybe next year if they obtain fighter jets for air superiority and focus 100% of efforts here they could take 20km. Potentially push past Tokmak and really put the Russians under pressure in the south.



  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭mikefromcork


    Posters who stated obviously wanted the counter offensive had to have failed on here weeks ago where were called putinbots etc...



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,022 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    What military equipment would a NATO army use if tasked to drive Russian forces out of Ukraine?

    There's a day of reckoning coming for those supporting Ukraine, a crossroads.

    And a real danger as Biden has pointed out, that NATO inc US forces will be dragged in. Maybe it's inevitable as things stand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    What’s your solution? Give in to Putin and have all of this repeat again in a couple of years??

    Only last year most of the items on today’s list would have raised eyebrows, yet here we are




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Pretty much this. There is a difference between posting updates of any operational difficulties the AFU might have, and enthusastically hunting out slithers of unsubstaniated data (or even Russian dis-information in some cases) in full throated attempts to support their Pro-Russia position and to seed doubt in the support of Ukraine.

    Even if that information becomes actual news later, it is still obvious what these posters who we have christened "Putinbots" are trying to do. That also includes, by the way, posters who lurk on this thread, press like on Putinbot posts and provide single-sentence pro-Russia snippets before disappearing again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,739 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    What about the right wing twats who also voted to block it. Why did you not mention them ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    To me the biggest issue now going forward is the lack of any real progress,yes they gained a few km here and there but for most part they haven't managed any significant gains despite the tens of billions in equipment being given to them along with now ignoring the tactical intelligence and planning from the US and NATO,all the while demanding more and more assistance,the Germans are now suggesting one fund of 20 billion for countries to contribute rather than Ukraine asking for donations and fundings separately while other countries are then seeking to be repaid for what they have donated,I get the feeling going forward people will want to see real progress or they may not be willing to keep handing over billions in equipment and money to a non NATO/EU country and they don't have a say in what and when it's used



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Because their position was expected as voting along party lines is more important than anything to them, just like we expect Russians to commit evil we expect republicans to be twats, nothing new there

    Yet Bernie’s vote could have led to a completely different outcome



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,739 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Well I was wrong about the counter offensive.

    I thought Russian defensive lines would collapse. Clearly they haven't. Surovikin defenses were no doubt a big part in this, but trying to conduct an offensive without at least parity in the air was a near impossible task on reflection. This conflict,as has been stated many times, can't be allowed to end in a stalemate. It will only embolden other actors watching on that if you can wait it out then the west's resolve will crumble- which is what Putin was banking on all along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    So no answer or attempt to participate in debate? Why do you post here then??



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    God I remember you used to give some dogs abuse to the posters that were far more pessimistic about Ukraine making a lot progress than you back in late 2022 (days of Spring or Summer in Crimea?).

    I almost think my memory is failing me, such is your reversal this year.

    You used to post to lay into countries that appeared to be questioning Ukraine's strategy (the old, defunct, arguments on give Ukraine all means necessary to push Russia back vs Ukraine cedeing some territory for a "peace" deal), or questioning any of Ukraine's equipment asks, or seen as not delivering their military requirements rapidly enough!

    Now it is unrelenting pessimism and quite regular criticism of Ukraine over various issues!

    Do you still think US/NATO should intervene directly [at least I think you used to believe that?] (not just give Ukraine plenty of weapons and support)?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Alot of people were of the same opinion,how many has the collapse starting been mentioned on here specifically and it's usually the same people say that the Russians have no men ,no artillery,Barrels ,tanks , aircraft and vehicles and yet they have kept the Ukrainians in trenches , only recently the Russians received a number of new Sukhoi aircraft with more to come in the next 12 -18 months, zelensky went to Amsterdam and claimed that the Dutch was handling over 42 F16s which was not agreed on yet it's still be pushed that they are getting 60 + F16s this year but countries like Denmark have said 4/5 aircraft but only if they satisfy the danish requirements on training and logistics first, and then others will follow over a several year period,

    If zelensky and the Ukrainian military aren't going to listen to the US and NATO commanders they will slowly lose support for those who have been giving them the most



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    To be fair there probably is not many countries who think they could outlast the west's resolve. China/Russia. I can't think of any other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Listen to US and NATO commanders about what exactly?

    Would you care expand with references too



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