Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I haven't seen anyone deny the horrific experience that the Jewish people had 80 years ago.

But aside from the fact that they are not the only community who has had such an experience, given that they have had it (and mention it from time to time) then it makes what they are doing to the Palestinians even more horrific. It's hard to fathom how, sometimes it feels like even in the same sentence, they can plead for understanding of their suffering and justify them applying it to others.

Never again was supposed to mean just that, 'not never again to us'.

That is more than a one-eyed view of this thread.

For a start, there have been quite a number of posters who have implied that Israel had it coming because of the way they claimed Palestinians had been treated, for more, we have one poster who repeatedly puts up a plan for peace which doesn't have at the top the release of the hostages taken by Hamas, effectively condoning it, there are others who suggest the hostages should be kept as bargaining chips, effectively condoning war crimes, and so on, right throughout this thread.

As for justifying what Israel have done, I haven't seen anybody claim that Israel are morally entitled to do what they are doing, however, plenty have spoken to the tents of international law and pointed to the actions of Israel being within the framework of the rules of war. As was said from the start, and which has been completely ignored, those pointing out the legitimacy of Israeli actions under international law don't necessarily agree with their approach.

The release of hostages is not Israels primary focus, why should it be in any one elses plan for peace other than to position them as the primary victims in this conflict. We are way past a time where that was the case.

The release of the hostages is in the Plan for peace I have posted, you don't even acknowledge the Palestinians held without charge as 'hostages'. There's no better example than that of being one eyed on this thread. Not to mention not putting up any counter plan for peace.

I would hope you would have the same ire directed at the Israeli President who has come up with an equal amount of garbage during this conflict. People voted for Higgins knowing the sort of person he is.

The larger clash of civilisations is between totalitarian states and democratic states. In that Europe, the US and Australia lead the way, with other notable additions, but we are on the wrong side of economics and demographics and the rise of the populist right in the US and parts of Eastern Europe is undermining us from within.

On the other side are the autocratic states in the Middle East, Russia, China and many more. There was an assumption at the end of the Cold War that as other countries got rich and educated they'd want democracy and become more like us. That assumption has turned out to be incorrect.

I absolutely would. People voted for Higgins because RTE wanted him elected and acted accordingly. He's a pompous, arrogant, verbose, intolerant and humourless person.

I am sorry, but the systematic elimination of LGBTQ+ people and rights within Arab Middle Eastern countries is close to genocide, much much closer than anything the Israelis are doing.

Maybe you should stop throwing the word around lightly.

Aid being held up at the border as reports of food running out.

The same thing is happening in Russia and China's not much better. There is much to criticise Arab-Muslim culture about but their oppression of LGBT+ people is, unfortunately, in no way unique.

A poll on this discussion board suggested Peter Casey was going to be President. He was only in the mix because of his dog whistling with respect to the traveler community.

A current wannabe contender is stirring up hate against migrants and threatening disabled people on Twitter. Both of these people seem to be popular with people who say Michael D should know his place and stay quiet.

The closes Michael D came to behaviour like this was calling Michael Graham a 'wan*er whipping up fear' and I'd gladly vote for him in a heartbeat if he was in a position to run again.

I suspected that you would. I consider the constitutional integrity of the office to be more important than the opinions of the incumbent. On that Micky D and I differ so I'll vote for someone else. His gross hypocrisy and offensive characterisation of vast swathes of people in Ireland are another reason.

More deflection.

According to the UN (although we know how Israel supporters feel about that institution) Bold mine as to what is particularly relevant.

Israel is a rogue state, carrying out a genocide. Just because it has powerful friends does not change this fact.

Many people voted for Higgins because of his track record in the Dail. As to him being arrogant, pompous and intolerant. When I lived in galway he owned the house beside me and was renting it out. I talked to him a few times when he called to the house and he was a lovely person to talk to with a breadth of knowledge on a lot of topics.