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Landlord refusing to repay a penny of deposit

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  • They certainly are. They did intend to repair to replace and seem aghast the landlord is retaining the deposit.

    They’re even giving them quotes to have the work done. If the OP’s sister disagrees with the cost she’s more than welcome to seek out another quote and compare them.

    Thing is what steps has the sister taken to remedy the problem to a mutually satisfactory outcome? The OP didn’t address any. He simply stated she is planning to threaten him with the RTB & revenue.

    But that’s assuming he’s non tax compliant for one thing. Owning multiple properties and not paying tax on any? Seems unlikely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Im lucky enough to own a house for 20+ years and never once burned a kitchen top by putting hot saucepans on it.

    You are more than entitled to do that in rented property if you want, just don't expect the deposit back then. No its not part of the deal.

    That would be trying to claim busting a door was part of the deal and other examples.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I used youtube, it wasn't bragging. Even if you decided what you want and got a labourer in to do it, again making the presumption that it is an awful bit of damage, laminate from Homevalue hardware or similar, they cut it to size for me, it's a quick enough one person job, biggest part will be lifting the hob if integrated, and turning off the sink and disconnecting it. Half a days labour. It will eat a huge chunk of the deposit but no way its taking it plus more.

    We don't actually know the damage as we haven't seen it, but at a minimum I would want to see a quote for the works and also my registration with RTB to alleviate the cost. Both are reasonable and make it all more acceptable.

    If he provides a quote but not the RTB registration for tax, calculate what she would have gotten back, take that off the cost and say, here are your options, Deposit A + Forgone Tax rebate B - quote for repairs C = Refundable amount and she can leave it there.

    I'm not pro or anti landlord or tenant, have seen good and bad from both, but that seems a fair and equitable outcome.

    There are plenty of landlords who will take that deposit and do none of the work and there are plenty or tenants who have done more than enough damage to account for the deposit plus extras.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well bualadh bos to you, some people keep their kitchens like laboratories.. most others just use them normally. If you're a landlord, then you have to assume that renters can cover the full spectrum from being ultra fastidious to normal and of course to reckless. But the OPs description is well within normal wear & tear, taken as given.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Yes, I don't think many home owners would replace their kitchen top when they get their first small burn mark on it. The landlord I think is entitled to some reduction due to the burn mark but charging for the whole surface to be replaced is, imo, a bit over the top. As others have suggested, it is worth the OP going to the RTB to have it adjudicated.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I'd have the good manners to not have you cooking or making the tea in my house. This said we broke an integrated counter top hob in a friends house at a christmas party one year where we all shared the cooking. It was 700 to replace, this was fair because while it still functioned, they had paid for was the aesthetics. We all chipped in money to it because no one actually knew who done it, but if we did, that person would have chipped in the bulk share of it, that's fair.

    This conversation would of course be more civil if we knew what the damage actually was though and what it was like before the damage. Is it a hot spoon from tea warping cheap 30 year old laminate or was it a red hot spoon covered in grease that melted through and then ripped a chunk of board out of a brand new fitted kitchen



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If they were going to do a runner they'd be gone. They got the house cleaned. So no your misrepresenting the situation.

    Getting a landlord to do a handover inspection and going to the RTB for dispute resolution is part of the standard process.

    You can't be "threatened with the RTB as landlord. If that's your mindset you're in the wrong business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    To those that think the tenant should pay for the new counter as its not wear and tear, would they also expect the landlord to replace the counter during the tenancy if the tenant complained about a damaged worktop?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Next tenant walks in and demand the kitchen top to be repaired before they take the property and then the landlord has to replace out of their own pocket

    Not sure what is confusing here and seen a lot of this in rental market. You rent a property and you are supposed to leave back in the same condition as you took it. With a burn on it the kitchen top is then destroyed. So it has to be replaced.

    If you don't want to threat the property with respect then expect to not get a deposit back. The attitude of "oh it's not too bad" doesn't work. Especially when the person who is saying that when trying to get a deposit back will be the first person in the next house to demand it is perfect.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    If you supply your instructions then maybe the person who damaged it can source the materials, spend the time and fix it themselves. If i was a landlord i dont think id be happy with doing all that work because some idiot damaged it. Id get a professional to do the work for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    I wrecked your lovely countertop but here. I bought you a cutting board you can throw on top of it.

    Maybe the next person who dents my car can buy me a badge to glue over the dent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Depends on the level of damage. If it is fairly minor such as described by the OP, I can't see the tenant insisting the worktop is replaced, particularly in the current rental market. Likewise I can't see a homeowner going to the expense of replacing a worktop after just one small burn. If it was a large burn or a lot of small burns then possibly yes.

    I disagree with some other posters that say that rental properties tend to be treated with less respect than owner occupied ones. A lot of homeowners will have pets (as is their right), for example, and pets generally are not allowed in rental accommodation.

    I think the OP should take it to the RTB and have it decided there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Everyone thinks their landlords arent paying tax or registering with the RTB. I think that is rare these days.

    Pictures of this damage would be great in this thread. Is it like one of these? Either way, if i did that to someones countertop, i wouldnt even have to be asked to get it fixed or replaced for them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So its wrecked now, its been melted, holes through it, now wrecked.

    I'm sure if you got a dent in the car you'd be on to the insurance looking to get the car replaced with a new one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Seems obvious you're NOT a landlord going by the complete over reaction to a bit of damage.

    Same with people who think a rental will be treated the same your home. Completely unrealistic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    You can remove a few mm from the damaged part of counter top with a router and fill in the hole with epoxy. Doesn't look perfect but works a treat



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Why would the owner accept something that doesn’t look as good as it did before the tenant burned it?

    J



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Well we dont actually know do we?

    All we know is the OP said it was burned and the that was enough for the landlord to tell them they would go get quotes to get it fixed and take it out of their deposit. Is that not what a deposit is for?

    You keep getting the situations people are talking about wrong. Clearly on purpose. Nobody is saying to replace a car with a dent.

    If someone dented your car would you allow them to say "ah sure its only the size of a bottle top, i shouldnt have to pay for it to be repaired. Sure leave it there, its grand." - Would you fcuk. You would get a professional to repair it and then charge the person who did it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Op have you a photo of this worktop damage, then you can kill the back and forths on that specific. 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    I love some posters usually the ones who never ever owned any property in their life or maintained one from their money.... Report report report to RTB like RTB is the holy grail with properties in their pocket! The good old days before the RTB and reporting, people had no shortage of rentals and paid cheaper rent.

    Now same renters complain they pay too much rent.

    I hope RTB may think to also fine renters who don't take care of properties but all they do is reporting and waste people's time. This has to change and onus put on renters more often too, fines brought up for renters. There is so much of entitled attitude out there.

    By the way, I am not a landlord!!

    Living the life



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you can add "melted" I can add "entire".

    If you don't like it, stop doing it. I'm just mirroring you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Oh the day the RTB would stand up to renters will be a great day, too many people damaging properties and then complaining when they have to pay for it.

    It's alarming how many people want to run to RTB and it just shows the RTB will nearly always side with the tenant. In this situation they have damaged the property, decided without any knowledge the property is not registered and the answer is to report.

    As you say the same people cry and whinge all day long about rents been high but expect to damage properties and walk away



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Going through RTB process is a legal requirement. Is the NCT the holy grail of car ownership?

    Certainly pros and cons to RTB. But blaming the RTB on the housing crisis is bit over stating it no?

    If you retain a deposit and the dispute goes to the RTB, and the RTB agrees with the LL, in my experience thats the end of the dispute.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    if you look through the disputes, tenants don't win all the disputes they bring to the RTB. Its actually very useful when you've retained a deposit.

    Again with the "run to the RTB". That's exactly whats its for. As a LL you've already registered your tenancies. You've ALREADY "run" to the RTB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Anaki r2d2


    Perhaps, but the OP states "She has not been able to get the Renters Tax Credit due to tenancy not being registered"

    So it's not a stretch to think the landlord is not paying tax. In addition to withholding deposit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Very likely not paying tax. Have a relative looking for rental accommodation this past while. Landlords spoilt for options with lots of callers. Cash and nothing written down is the preferred option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The landlord will have to show any damage is beyond normal wear and tear. It's the landlords job to maintain the property and over time any property requires maintenance. Based on the OP there's not enough information to determine that. Any worktop will get imperfections/bits of damage over time just due to normal use. That goes for all parts of a property. It's a cost of doing business for a landlord.

    There's a huge difference between someone wrecking a house and normal wear and tear. Wear and tear is part and parcel of owning a property as a landlord or owner occupied. People wrecking a place is a completely different problem and the two shouldn't be grouped together.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Homer


    Burn marks are not wear and tear as outlined in the OP. It’s pretty black and white.. whether RTB would side with landlord and insist on replacement of counter top remains to be seen. Buts it’s certainly not wear and tear.



This discussion has been closed.
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