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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    First of all, it's not 'deciding when you can charge' or heat your home. It's allowing the grid operators to put conditions that allow grid operators to limit the bandwidth to certain devices when there is acute shortages in the grid. The limits are set to throttle excessive use during times of shortages, but the limits are set at reasonable levels that will only affect especially heavy users at times of acute shortages.

    This is a sensible compromise that gets rid of the excuse that the grid operators are using to delay facilitating new connections to the grid.

    What will the future grid look like? With more and more new BEVs supporting V2G, having BEVs connected to the grid will serve as a really useful buffer and will reduce the requirement to curtail electricity. For those who aren't connected to the grid, smart charging will be ubiquitous, BEV owners will be able to charge their cars for much cheaper when there is a surplus of electricity (any time it's windy at night, wind power is currently curtailed, as BEVs become more widespread and smart chargers proliferate, this wasted capacity will be used to charge BEVs

    Then we will have millions of BEVs from commuters coming home from work, in time for the peak power demand in evenings, plugging in their almost full BEV to the charger, and many of them, supplying energy to the grid when it's most in demand, and then recharging that battery at night when the energy would have been wasted and the tariff is cheaper....



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    That’s incredible waffle

    Yes people will permit the destruction of their car batteries (without their consent) lifespan for what exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Fast charging is the issue with battery lifespan. Also going from 0% to 100%.

    In reality on V2G you are going to see very little degradation because I expect the parameters will be set to use once between 20-80%.

    Netherlands for one already have projects based on this concept so I would expect the full facts will be available soon and that would speed up the process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Says the guy who claims home solar in Ireland with 10% capacity factor is “profitable” and whose own figures show otherwise



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Rather than waving around Ryan`s latest waffle why not do at least a little research or even read back through this thread.

    As has been posted here many times November 2021 The Good Information Project/Think Ireland did just that.

    A survey of 1,200 people on the question "Should Ireland build a nuclear power station to increse clean energy supplies" found a 50/50 split. 43% yes 43% no with the remainder unsure. In the 18 -24 year age group 60% said yes. If you are looking for a political party supporting nuclear then from that survey it should be the greens as that is the age group it garnered the highest percentage of its vote from in the last general election.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I gave you the numbers and you ran away then. I never said solar was profitable so no need to lie. That was on another thread and if you want to discuss it then do it on the thread

    You claimed to have invested in Solar PV, which is an investment of thousands of euro. Then you seem to have no information on how solar works. D'ooohhhh

    A government document is not "Ryan's latest waffle"

    You sharing the latest nonsense you found on google is an excellent example of that.

    As I pointed out already with the survey you keep pointing to the question did not clarify the location. Ask the same question but say it is in your county and see the percentage. I pointed this out to you multiple times now. Why do you constantly repeat the same thing over and over again?

    Do you actually have anything of interest to discuss or just on repeat mode now for 2-3 years on this thread?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You can poll it and vote for it and campaign as much as you want but as things stand there is no technological way to even begin to do it, at least not economically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Solar PV.

    You can provide us all with your feedback and a view of the TCO you done up before the purchase



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    It was a terrible investment in hindsight with the installer lying about figures and feed in tarrifs not being available for first few years.

    Unlike yourself I am able to admit to making a mistake

    If I invested the same in stocks would have had multiples back now even with the high capital gains we have here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I love it when people accuse me of 'Waffle'

    It usually means they haven't any good argument against what I have just said

    The car batteries won't be damaged from V2G

    They're more likely to be damaged by keeping them topped up at 100% almost all of the time


    And nobody can possibly have V2G enabled without their consent. It would be entirely optional



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Just like no one’s power supply won’t be fiddled with remotely like they starting to do on Germany?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Poorly researched it sounds like to me.

    Every person you talk to says to get 3 quotes which is doesn't sound like you did.

    FiT was always something that might happen, plus it is variable so you should never have put a TCO based on FiT.

    Unlike me you done poor research, didn't know what you would be buying, hadn't figured out the payback period and I would expect if you only got one quote massively overpaid for the installation.

    You shouldn't try slate a technology due to your own poor judgement and especially try to tell other people who had the cop on to research it properly they made the same silly mistakes you made.

    If you couldn't buy a solar PV system I wouldn't be recommending you to start looking at stocks



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The government are proposing Ammonia as a medium to use Hydrogen as backup for renewables

    It's a perfectly sensible solution that supports a modern carbon free grid. The technology to create and store ammonia is as old as the hills but is still being improved as it becomes a central part of the 21st century energy mix, and it can be burned in a modified CCGT station such as Whitegate in Cork. Efficient combustion emits Water Vapour, Oxygen and Nitrogen as byproducts, and there are proven catalysts that can be used to reduce NOX and NO2 emissions from sub-optimal combustion

    The biggest issue is that it takes energy to create the ammonia from hydrogen and Nitrogen. This is where the intermittent nature of Wind and Solar power comes into play. If we are planning on creating 30GW of wind power, and even if our electricity 'Peak' demand increases to 15GW from the current peak of about 7gw, for more than 60% of the day, our actual demand is lower than the peak demand, and on days with good conditions for renewable energy, we will have lots and lots of surplus power, which can be used to charge batteries, and to create Hydrogen that can be converted to Ammonia, and stored for the periods when we have sustained deficits in renewable power



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Your power supply can be 'fiddled with remotely' right now if the grid operator needed to.

    Your power can be shut off at any time if the grid operator decides it needs to for safety or maintenance purposes

    Your Power can be shut off at any time if your Utility decides you have not paid your bill

    The Grid operators can enact 'rolling brownouts' against whole sectors of the grid if they need to for balancing or frequency regulation right now if they needed to

    What is being proposed in germany, is that grid operators could target these measures to first restrict energy bandwidth in a more managed way rather than the blunt instruments that they currently have recourse to



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Which they would have to do in first place if they

    1. didnt shutdown their nuclear plants prematurely
    2. Didn’t waste a trillion euro on renewables and now ended up with an unstable grid


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Oh it’s ammonia now, I can smell it from over here rising from the green bullshit pile next to those moving goalposts over there

    1. how much would it cost to build a plant that can convert 1GWh of electricity into ammonia
    2. how much would it cost to run it for a year
    3. how much would it cost to store and transport said ammonia safely


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They have a perfectly stable grid. Amongst the most stable grid in the world. But the grid operators are nervous about what will happen if a half a million heat pumps are installed over the next few years and want to make sure the grid stays stable and reliable. So, they're proposing this as a mechanism to give them confidence in the event of an acute energy shortage.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/268155/ranking-of-the-20-countries-with-the-highest-quality-of-electricity-supply/



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Interestingly, In 2022, Germans had an average power outage of 12 minutes for the entire year

    Meanwhile, in France, the energy regulators were very close to having to initiate rolling power cuts due to having so many nuclear power stations offline for repairs last year. (they initialised 'voluntary measures' https://www.euronews.com/2022/10/06/france-launches-sobriety-energy-savings-drive-to-avoid-winter-power-cuts rather than forced power restrictions)

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/france-can-avoid-power-cuts-with-sobriety-regulator-says



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    How much would it cost for the nuclear power plant that you're so madly in love with? (and the anciliary infrastructure for trasnport, storage, re-processing, regulatory infrastructure etc etc etc)

    Or if you prefer LNG, how much would it cost for a LNG plant and a constant stream of LNG tankers to top it up and transport the gas to the power stations around Ireland........

    Electricity and electricity stability all come at a cost. At least with renewables and ammonia for storage, the cost can be financed and we can manage that economically, rather than continuing to burn more and more fossil fuels and pay the cost in irreversible environmental destruction



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  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Then why do they need to switch off customers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    26 billion for four reactors which is less than 200 billion for offshore wind every two decades and unknown amount for ammonia or hydrogen or whatever is the latest brainfart



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Source for this 26 billions to build in Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s from Ryan`s Department and presented by Ryan so yes it is Ryan`s latest waffle. From his previous document waffling on railroads with Varadkar driving a major hole through it on the day Ryan presented it, it`s clear on how the rest of government now judge his utterance, "Let him off, it keeps him amused and it`s not going to happen anyway"

    I may have repeated myself a number of times on certain subjects but that has mainly been due to a combination of slow learners, poster refusing to do even the most basic research or not even bothering or ignoring answers that have been given here on numerous occassions. But then if I was someone who ran away every time they are questioned on the practicality or cost of green proposals I would not have a neck on me hard enough to criticise the posts of others.

    You may not like the survey results, but it shows that the attitude to nuclear energy here has changed a lot in a few year, especially among the younger cohort of society. You could do a survey within a few miles from a proposed wind or solar farm and I doubt it would show open armed enthuasiasm. If you`re looking at a community being keen on having a nuclear plant near them, then you could use the likes of the green bribe for offshore, but instead offer everyone within a certain radius free electricity. A good chance you would have communities competing for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It is a Irish government department document.

    "slow learners"

    The result show people will go nuclear, I am not arguing against that. I have said I have no issue with nuclear once its 200km away from me. As I said if you want a proper survey ask the same people if they want nuclear in their county. You lready know the answer to this and that's why you keep pushing the same survey as some sort of proof. Again "slow learners"?

    Also as pointed out to you multiple times, not a single party in Ireland is running on the basis of building nuclear. You seemed to think Sinn Fein wouldn;t follow the trajectory of the Green party till I pointed out the document that they would increase the rollout to renewables, Again "slow learners"?

    You also spent a number of days telling everyone that Ireland would only use "wind, hydro, solar" in the future even after been pointed out to you multiple times this was not the case. Again ....you can guess it....."slow learners"?

    For someone that has spent years at this stage posting on this thread, a lot of what I can see is comments like "slow learners" to other posters you don't seem to know a lot about the topic. Especially you seem to have no idea about any of the political parties and what their plans are in terms of Green policies. most of the posts are just a tirade against the Green Party which is amusing.

    Now I'm sure you will find some silly document you found on google about Germany or Denmark or Timbuktu. None of which are relevant to Ireland or Green Policies in Ireland and think it is somehow relevant while telling everyone an actual government document released by a government department in Ireland is "waffle". To me? well only one of those things is waffle. im sure you can connect the dots on which one it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Ah, we are back to the myth about cheap renewable electricity again. Can't happen, won't happen, so I've no idea why you keep repeating that lie.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Technically it`s not alchemy or some form of withcraft, and as far as economics go even by the yardstick of Finland`s latest nuclear power plant that was over budget, it is still multiples cheaper than this offshore wind/hydrogen plan for the offshore part alone, and even more multiples cheaper than the recently open UAE plant. And that is before the cost of offhore went through the roof.

    With nuclear no need for hydrogen, and the consummer would only be paying for the electricity they use whereas with this offshore plan they would be paying double (because half the generation would go to hydrogen) plus the cost of the hydrogen production, distribution and desalination plants that would be required. As well as the expense of the offshore section being gutted and replaced at least twice within the lifetime of a nuclear plant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    It’s ammonia now apparently, hydrogen is no longer in vogue, next they be telling us about unobtanium

    Examples of at scale plants and prices are also missing in action

    Is there even 37GW worth of energy being used to create ammonia in whole world? I thought most ammonia comes from natural gas chemical processes



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Lol.

    Hinckley C is currently running at 35 billion for 3.5gw, just for construction before a single watt of energy is generated, plus operating costs and tens of billions extra to decommission the plant when it's finished in a few decades time, storage and transport of nuclear waste....

    Plus all the backup facilities that we'll still need to build



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




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