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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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    #23552
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472535#Comment_121472535

    Hamas may be evil and depraved and has caused great harm to Israel but thankfully as you say it isn't a world leading military-scientific-industrial power with millions of soldiers and all the best of modern weaponry.

    That is an important difference that determines the approach, not a minor detail you just dismiss.

    If you think this is a fight to the death and effectively Israel must commit atrocities now because it is "us or them", well good luck with that and no point going further.

    While they have the whip hand now vs their neighbours, they will still be outnumbered and surrounded by people who hate them in wider region when the dust settles on this and this hate will get more intractable (and ripe for the "right"/"wrong" leaders to harness it, when they pop up) with each cycle of this process. Israel can't annihilate them all unless they want to use nuclear weapons or something. I don't think the future is going to be good.

    On Russia, the Israeli's utterly cynical and mercenary realpolitik approach to invasion of Ukraine is maybe understandable but just another thing that shows what a horrible bunch of people their current govt./leaders are.

    It (edit: the clever realpolitik/strategy) blowing up in their face and the "friend" Putin now placing more value on a friendship with Iran (because they can do more for him) serves them right IMO.



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    #23553
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473095#Comment_121473095

    Illegal?

    How so?



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    #23554
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    It must bring to question, again, the nature of the post World War 2 powerbrokers regarding their rule on the UN: USA, UK, France, Russia, China, that can veto each other.

    Off topic of course, but it sometimes makes the United Nations an ineffective mechanism in dealing with world crises.



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    #23555
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473133#Comment_121473133

    German politicians still feel guilty about the Holocaust and are now just kowtowing. Afraid to offend the Jews.



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    #23556
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473135#Comment_121473135

    you asked a simple question I gave an answer. The Christian right is the support base for Israel in America. So it important for Israel how they look to them.



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    #23557
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473150#Comment_121473150

    Analysts believe the targeting of civilians is 100% deliberate and couldn't possibly be 'accidental' or 'collateral damage' i.e. the IDF have made a conscious decision to bomb civilian areas, similar to what happened to Hamburg and Dresden in WW2.



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    #23558
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473190#Comment_121473190

    That decision was made by Netanyahu as we saw in the video posted early in the thread. In war the warmongers have the say.



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    #23559
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473190#Comment_121473190

    Analysts? Who are they?

    Tbf, war crimes are always committed by both sides in all conflicts, trying to make out there is only one side guilty, without evidence? Bit biased no?

    I'll wait for actual war crime investigators to collect evidence.



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    #23560
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473036#Comment_121473036

    Can't have those pesky journalists reporting on their war crimes .

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

    https://www.btselem.org/



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    #23561
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473173#Comment_121473173

    Or maybe they realise that the Jewish people have to spend their entire existence defending themselves, and trying to stay alive



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    #23562
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473180#Comment_121473180

    The Christian right are the support base for Israel in the US? And not the millions of American Jews? ok then



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    #23563
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473216#Comment_121473216

    Well they're far more able to defend themselves with their huge army and weaponry than the poor Palestinian population sheltering under bombed buildings and old bloodstained bed sheets. Especially when they are told to go to certain areas to be safe and then bombed when they get there.



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    #23564
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473220#Comment_121473220

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-sizeable-us-demographic-many-evangelicals-are-sending-money-and-manpower-to-israel/

    Evangelicals are known to be an influential support base for Israel.



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    #23565
    Scipri0
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Scipri0


    You only have to ask yourself, are all the people that live in these apartment blocks also terrorists. It's quite a stunning video and i'm surprised i haven't seen in on the news, a reason for that is i suspect it'll turn more people against the war. Just click on the link and go to youtube because they blocked autoplay on the video, but it works on youTube.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWzxzYNfMA




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    #23566
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473294#Comment_121473294

    Vile acts. The poor people had no chance. How could any right-thinking person support that?



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    #23567
    dmcdona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473294#Comment_121473294

    An article posted earlier this week referred to one of three methods Israel uses to identify targets. Read the bit about "power targets".

    As I said before, read that and you'll see where this is going.

    Like many here, I utterly condemn any and all attacks on Israel. Equally, I condemn any and all attacks on civilians.

    This current offensive by Israel has gone beyond proportionality. The veto of the UN vote by the US is tragic. Many more people in Gaza will die from continued direct Israeli action. Even more will die from indirect causes - sickness, lack of medical care etc. It will include civilians, medics, journalists and UN staff.

    This is retribution This is wrong. This is FUBAR.



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    #23568
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,739 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472870#Comment_121472870

    Only last another six weeks . That won't seem like a mercy to the people under intense bombardment . Hamas releasing the hostages and agreeing to a ceasefire will not end the war given the stated goal of the Israeli Government is the complete destruction of Hamas.

    In any case the Israelis are not going to get another six weeks. The Americans will pull the plug on it before that. This is why 450 bombs were dropped today, the Israeli Government know time is running out for them.



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    #23569
    gameoverdude
    Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473209#Comment_121473209

    To be fair? You have seen the death toll...right?

    Children are fair game? Just got in the way of bombs. How careless of them.



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    #23570
    Northernlily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473294#Comment_121473294

    Israel are a terrorist state. Indefensible.

    Ireland, in fairness to us were out in front with our condemnation. We seen this for what it was from the off. Israel using the Hamas attack as an opportunity to commite genocide of the Palestinian people. Others are now slowly beginning to follow.



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    #23571
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473492#Comment_121473492

    You do know that there are thousands of innocent people killed in wars, worldwide, continuously. no one wants innocent people killed, no innocents, not just children.

    Why do you feel so strongly about this one in particular then? Is it just because Israel are so strongly defending themselves against constant terrorism? Do you support the terrorists?

    Do you think Israel should maybe do nothing? Just allow Hamas to continuously attack them? Kidnap their people? Kill their people?



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    #23572
    scottser
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    Said it a few weeks ago. Every day Israel continues its attacks on innocents is a day closer to the fall of the Netanyahu regime. Israel is going through a massive identity crisis that Hamas are exploiting. The best thing for Israel to do is announce a ceasefire. Only the most rabid psychopaths are justifying the ongoing slaughter.



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    #23573
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473209#Comment_121473209

    You think 15-20,000 Gazan civilians have died 'accidentally' in the space of eight weeks and not as a result of serious war crimes? From what I can see, the regime and its media aren't even denying the deaths or the numbers.



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    #23574
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473564#Comment_121473564

    How dare we hold Israel up to higher standards than some poor 3rd world country having a civil war with dumb bombs and dumb munitions.

    Israel, with modern tech, capable of reducing civilian casualties to a minimum, yet their own PM admits they are not doing that. 0.5% of the population dead in less than 2 months. (for those on the 9/11 scale, it's the same as 1.6mil Americans)

    American officials also surprised that 90% of the bombs dropped the first week were 2000lb bombs, as although they are accurate, they cannot be used to limit civilian casualties.

    I can't recall any war in recent memory that civilian, especially children have born most of the casualties.

    Was only a few weeks ago, people in defense if Israel were questioning the numbers, thank **** they are accepted now

    Nobody is saying Israel should do nothing, but Israel is not under imminent threat. Hamas are not going to be charging into Israel on mopeds anytime soon. This is not self defense by Israel, they are well past that now.



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    #23575
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473567#Comment_121473567

    Of course they're not denying it, Why would they lie?

    War does not equal was crimes. You think everything the Israelis are doing is a war crime, but you obviously don't know any international humanitarian law.

    In an extremely high density area such as Gaza, with a population of over 2 million, that 15-20 000 people have been killed is actually amazing.

    And don't think for a second that I am somehow condoning the deaths of innocent civilians, I am not. It's horrific to see. But not everything that happens in war is a war crime



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    #23576
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473488#Comment_121473488
    image.png

    Israel had some catching up to do, to keep those numbers up.



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    #23577
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472722#Comment_121472722

    Here's a link for you, and it shows a tunnel. But make up your own mind. I've never doubted their existence not even for one second only the extent of them, their locations and what use Hamas made of them. And as for a Toyota 4x4 driving in one? It's not impossible even under these circumstances, but again, I'll wait and see. On the balance of probabilities' though, I'd say yes. Hamas was using 4x4's in the tunnels. Obviously, not in every tunnel, but for sure, they had to have means of moving their missiles /mortars etc.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/video/news/israeli-military-release-gunfight-footage/



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    #23578
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473591#Comment_121473591

    'We had no choice but to kill 20,000 civilians' is no sort of a defence to accusations of war crimes or massive breaches of international law. Many human rights lawyers have said Israel has carried out multiple violations of international law in the last eight weeks, as well as academics who have devoted their entire career to the study of war crimes.



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    #23579
    StarryPlough01
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Starry: UN Secretary General is setting up (Article 99 UN Charter) for a General Assembly vote to take action because the Security Council has failed to take action.

    BREAKING… In international news it’s been reported that UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres is telling Security Council that they are complicit in slaughter because of inaction

    Here’s the inaction:

    'US vetoes resolution on Gaza which called for ‘immediate humanitarian ceasefire’

    UN website:

    US vetoes resolution on Gaza which called for ‘immediate humanitarian ceasefire’

    8 December 2023. Peace and Security​

    "The UN Security Council held an emergency meeting Friday morning New York time to discuss the catastrophic situation in Gaza. This follows Wednesday’s urgent letter by Secretary-General António Guterres – one of the most powerful tools at his disposal – urging the body to help end carnage in the war-battered enclave through a lasting humanitarian ceasefire. A resolution tabled late afternoon in the chamber calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire was vetoed by the United States."​

    AND, FOR YOUR EASE OF REFERENCE:

    Role of the General Assembly​

    "In accordance with the General Assembly's "Uniting for Peace" resolution of November 1950 [resolution 377 (V)], if the Security Council fails to act, owing to the negative vote of a permanent member, then the General Assembly may act. This would happen in the case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression. The General Assembly can consider the matter with a view to making recommendations to Members for collective measures to maintain or restore international peace and security.​

    "This resolution was invoked only once in UN peacekeeping history, when in 1956 the General Assembly established the First UN Emergency Force (UNEF I) in the Middle East.​



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    #23580
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,577 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473590#Comment_121473590

    can't recall any war in recent memory that civilian, especially children have born most of the casualties.

    Really? You should do some research, World War 2 for example, approx 70-85 million people died, approx 55 million were civilians.

    Bosnian war had approx 100,000 killed, 40,000 were civilians

    Kosovo war, approx 13500 killed ( or still missing) , over 10,000 were civilians. Also 90% of kosovans were displaced during the war. NATO actually killed a few thousand civilians on both sides of this war with bombs they dropped, including Kosovo refugees.

    There are plenty more wars you can check.



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    #23581
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473621#Comment_121473621

    Perhaps like in those two most recent cases you have referenced some international body should intervene to stop the slaughter of civilians.



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