Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

You only have to ask yourself, are all the people that live in these apartment blocks also terrorists. It's quite a stunning video and i'm surprised i haven't seen in on the news, a reason for that is i suspect it'll turn more people against the war. Just click on the link and go to youtube because they blocked autoplay on the video, but it works on youTube.

An article posted earlier this week referred to one of three methods Israel uses to identify targets. Read the bit about "power targets".

As I said before, read that and you'll see where this is going.

Like many here, I utterly condemn any and all attacks on Israel. Equally, I condemn any and all attacks on civilians.

This current offensive by Israel has gone beyond proportionality. The veto of the UN vote by the US is tragic. Many more people in Gaza will die from continued direct Israeli action. Even more will die from indirect causes - sickness, lack of medical care etc. It will include civilians, medics, journalists and UN staff.

This is retribution This is wrong. This is FUBAR.

To be fair? You have seen the death toll...right?

Children are fair game? Just got in the way of bombs. How careless of them.

You do know that there are thousands of innocent people killed in wars, worldwide, continuously. no one wants innocent people killed, no innocents, not just children.

Why do you feel so strongly about this one in particular then? Is it just because Israel are so strongly defending themselves against constant terrorism? Do you support the terrorists?

Do you think Israel should maybe do nothing? Just allow Hamas to continuously attack them? Kidnap their people? Kill their people?

You think 15-20,000 Gazan civilians have died 'accidentally' in the space of eight weeks and not as a result of serious war crimes? From what I can see, the regime and its media aren't even denying the deaths or the numbers.

Of course they're not denying it, Why would they lie?

War does not equal was crimes. You think everything the Israelis are doing is a war crime, but you obviously don't know any international humanitarian law.

In an extremely high density area such as Gaza, with a population of over 2 million, that 15-20 000 people have been killed is actually amazing.

And don't think for a second that I am somehow condoning the deaths of innocent civilians, I am not. It's horrific to see. But not everything that happens in war is a war crime

Here's a link for you, and it shows a tunnel. But make up your own mind. I've never doubted their existence not even for one second only the extent of them, their locations and what use Hamas made of them. And as for a Toyota 4x4 driving in one? It's not impossible even under these circumstances, but again, I'll wait and see. On the balance of probabilities' though, I'd say yes. Hamas was using 4x4's in the tunnels. Obviously, not in every tunnel, but for sure, they had to have means of moving their missiles /mortars etc.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/video/news/israeli-military-release-gunfight-footage/

Starry: UN Secretary General is setting up (Article 99 UN Charter) for a General Assembly vote to take action because the Security Council has failed to take action.

BREAKING… In international news it’s been reported that UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres is telling Security Council that they are complicit in slaughter because of inaction

Here’s the inaction:

'US vetoes resolution on Gaza which called for ‘immediate humanitarian ceasefire’

UN website:

US vetoes resolution on Gaza which called for ‘immediate humanitarian ceasefire’

8 December 2023. Peace and Security​

"The UN Security Council held an emergency meeting Friday morning New York time to discuss the catastrophic situation in Gaza. This follows Wednesday’s urgent letter by Secretary-General António Guterres – one of the most powerful tools at his disposal – urging the body to help end carnage in the war-battered enclave through a lasting humanitarian ceasefire. A resolution tabled late afternoon in the chamber calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire was vetoed by the United States."​

AND, FOR YOUR EASE OF REFERENCE:

Role of the General Assembly​

"In accordance with the General Assembly's "Uniting for Peace" resolution of November 1950 [resolution 377 (V)], if the Security Council fails to act, owing to the negative vote of a permanent member, then the General Assembly may act. This would happen in the case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression. The General Assembly can consider the matter with a view to making recommendations to Members for collective measures to maintain or restore international peace and security.​

"This resolution was invoked only once in UN peacekeeping history, when in 1956 the General Assembly established the First UN Emergency Force (UNEF I) in the Middle East.​

Perhaps like in those two most recent cases you have referenced some international body should intervene to stop the slaughter of civilians.

@tayto lover

Re your reply to Ulixes

"Yes your attempt at deflection, by even mentioning the other occupations, does not disguise your efforts to have the last remaining doctors who stayed with their patients and reported at first hand the pain and suffering inflicted on them is a disgrace. But it didn't work. Poor effort."

'UN Security Council 'complicit' in Gaza 'slaughter': MSF'

AFP / 08 December 2023

https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1360273/un-security-council-complicit-in-gaza-slaughter-msf.html

"The UN Security Council is "complicit in the ongoing slaughter" in the Gaza Strip and must vote Friday to "lift the siege," the medical charity Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said.

"UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres convened an emergency Security Council meeting after two months of fighting, which has left more than 17,000 people dead in Gaza, according to the enclave's Health Ministry.

"MSF said the council must demand an immediate and sustained ceasefire and ensure unrestricted aid into the Palestinian territory.

"To date, the inaction of the United Nations Security Council and vetoes from member states, particularly the United States, make them complicit in the ongoing slaughter; this inaction has given license to the mass killing of men, women and children," MSF said in a statement.

....

______

Tayto lover - reply button not working at the moment (got a window with pink background saying 'problem' - but I'm sure problem will be resolved)

I think you are right. Not sure how else it can happen right now.

But why would some international body intervene if it's a just war and only Israel acting in self defense?

And as some have pointed out..... only a 'small' number of civilian casualties?

I don't consider one age group of innocent civilians to be more important than another. All innocent civilians killed are exactly that, doesn't matter what age they are.

I didn't post numbers of civilian deaths as some kind of comparison, and I didn't realize they had to be within your personal memory. You said you didn't remember a war were civilians were the majority of the dead. I pointed out they are, or mostly 50/50.

you seem to want this war to be worse then others, it's not, they're all bad.

I don't think the US got anything in return from Israel, it's just the US has backed Israel for so long they can't not back them despite what Israel are doing.