Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

@tayto lover

Re your reply to Ulixes

"Yes your attempt at deflection, by even mentioning the other occupations, does not disguise your efforts to have the last remaining doctors who stayed with their patients and reported at first hand the pain and suffering inflicted on them is a disgrace. But it didn't work. Poor effort."

'UN Security Council 'complicit' in Gaza 'slaughter': MSF'

AFP / 08 December 2023

https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1360273/un-security-council-complicit-in-gaza-slaughter-msf.html

"The UN Security Council is "complicit in the ongoing slaughter" in the Gaza Strip and must vote Friday to "lift the siege," the medical charity Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said.

"UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres convened an emergency Security Council meeting after two months of fighting, which has left more than 17,000 people dead in Gaza, according to the enclave's Health Ministry.

"MSF said the council must demand an immediate and sustained ceasefire and ensure unrestricted aid into the Palestinian territory.

"To date, the inaction of the United Nations Security Council and vetoes from member states, particularly the United States, make them complicit in the ongoing slaughter; this inaction has given license to the mass killing of men, women and children," MSF said in a statement.

....

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Tayto lover - reply button not working at the moment (got a window with pink background saying 'problem' - but I'm sure problem will be resolved)

I think you are right. Not sure how else it can happen right now.

But why would some international body intervene if it's a just war and only Israel acting in self defense?

And as some have pointed out..... only a 'small' number of civilian casualties?

I don't consider one age group of innocent civilians to be more important than another. All innocent civilians killed are exactly that, doesn't matter what age they are.

I didn't post numbers of civilian deaths as some kind of comparison, and I didn't realize they had to be within your personal memory. You said you didn't remember a war were civilians were the majority of the dead. I pointed out they are, or mostly 50/50.

you seem to want this war to be worse then others, it's not, they're all bad.

I don't think the US got anything in return from Israel, it's just the US has backed Israel for so long they can't not back them despite what Israel are doing.

If US has no influence on Israel's behaviour(I think it does) then maybe they are motivated not to abandon an ally and thereby call into question their commitments to other allies that they have or wish to have.

I also wonder what would happen if the States did abandon Israel .

I think Israel would still fight its corner(and receive support worldwide)

So on Wednesday this thread was dominated with discussion about rape as weapon of war, on Thursday it was dominated with discussion about Gay rights, and yesterday it was dominated with discussion about the trustworthiness of Drs.

Well played in all who achieved this.

A master stroke in deflection and refocusing of the discussion to limit conversation on the continued brutality of Israel as it once again shows chilling similarities with the experiences Jewish people suffered 80 years ago and Palestinians in Gaza today.

Whether its the US and UK representatives at the UN security council preventing a resolution to call for a ceasefire, German officials having people declare the Jewish state having a right to exist as part of immigration procedures, US Congress passing a law that says antizionism is antisemitism, US congressional hearings reacting to 3 Palestinians shot in Vermont with giving Jewish students a platform to say how hearing protests calling for a ceasefire is triggering for them, the BBC referring to a murdered poet as a 'controversial writer' or the posters on here who managed to focus the conversation away from acts of Genocide, you're all doing the same thing and doing so depressingly successfully.

Israel is a rogue state, carrying out a genocide, its able to do this in part because of all those above. Well done.

This is a picture that I've looked at before and always taken a moment to reflect on what it represents.

It is an art memorial on the shores of the Danube in Budapest, Hungary that represents the memory of the Jewish people who were massacred by a fascist militia 79 years ago this month.

Now, and in future, whenever I see or think of this memorial, which is very powerful, I will also think about the following image.

This was taken this week as IDF soldiers entered Gaza and arrested hundreds of men and stripped them almost naked, including their shoes before binding their arms and taking them away.

Israel PR said that these were all captured Hamas members except within hours reports emerged identifying some of the people as being journalists or even 1 working for a UN organisation.

Israel is doing more to erode the empathy people across the world has/had for the Jewish people and their historic suffering. I have a strong hatred for people who are using the fact of that suffering to excuse the Israeli PM, Government and Military behaving in ways which are very similar as to how those who persecuted the Jews enmasse behaved.

I've said it on here before, I'll say it again, that there are evil people isn't a surprise, that unfortunately there can be a time when a large group of them meet in the same place and gain power which allows them to act out their evil intent. That this would happen in the same lifetime of many who survived the persecution of Jewish people last century to see their own country speaking of and behaving towards another community in the ways we are seeing, is a surprise. Underlined by the fact that the Jewish people who survived the intent of the Nazis did so using the phrase 'Never Again' as a promise/hope that such suffering would not be experienced again.

But the worst and most depressing thing about these realities is that now, the persecutors of this intent in the 21st century, is the Government and Military of the Jewish state. And their biggest supporters are countries who watched what was being done to their people in the past and said that this must be stopped. Whatever the cost, it must be stopped. - Yesterday, these countries, the United States and the United Kingdom refused to call for Israel to halt the death and destruction it is inflicting on the Palestinians in Gaza.

This probably makes sense in your head.

No one is justifying bombing children.

Good to see a few more European states back the ceasefire last night, shameful stuff from the G7 members.

hamas released a video earlier showing the dead body of a hostage who had clearly been tortured and mutilated, and then blamed Israel for breaking his hands and arms and gouging out his eyes before killing him. But God forbid some suspected terrorists have to strip to their underwear to check for weapons or bombs. War crimes! Why are Israel held to such different standards here? Again, a ceasefire has to come from both sides.

And todays agenda is Israel = Nazi. Been a few days since this was wheeled out.

"Why are Israel held to such different standards here?"

Well generally, if you believe that your enemy is so bad that they deserve to be wiped out of existence, then it is obvious that you must hold yourself to a higher standard or logically you deserve to be wiped out of existence.

Israel is one of the world's most powerful nations militarily. The fact it could destroy all of Gaza and everyone in it in the space of a week means they hold every Gazan civilian's life in their hands. They control everything they have access to and have done so for over a decade. This means they have to hold themselves to a higher standard.

This is really basic stuff. You can't subjugate millions of people until they attack and then justify their complete destruction because of that attack.

While thousands of Gazan civilians are being killed in indiscriminate bombings, this constant posting describing why they deserve to die is rather crass.

Yep, this is what Israel has done. Made comparisons with their greatest enemy valid conversation.

Right wing media in the US yesterday led with a townhall column saying 'there are no innocent Palestinians'. This was exactly the rhetoric used by Nazis to justify their killing of Jewish children.