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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    If the Russian narrative is that they're the last bulwark against (literal!) Nazi states everywhere to the West, then you can probably keep privations going for long enough with an engrained siege mentality. Not indefinitely, but couple that with the generic memory of those old enough to remember the hardships of the USSR, and I could see these shortages failing to move the needle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Oh they can keep up the illusion for a long time, undoubtedly, the USSR managed 70 years to the point where the main use of state propaganda newspapers was to wipe bottoms as toilet paper was unobtanium.

    For these babushkas standing in the cold would offer the opportunity to retrospectively examine as to whether the death of their sons and husbands in a faraway mud hole for no good reasons in same manner their grandmas done in 80s areas worth it. They can also compare notes as to if any of them are getting paid the promised ever devaluing roubles as compensation or pension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Some good news a lot of stuff got through the polish blockade ...ukraine put it in a train instead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Considering what is happening in Israel that is a very believable narrative. Clearly I dont believe this about ukraine. But obv its true of israel.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In a fascist state, these women might well say: yes, it's worth it. I don't subscribe to demonising an entire nation or people as has been the odd segue here, but there's also no doubt there will be buy-in into the kleptocratic, mafia, fascist stripmine that is Russia. Fascism is a death cult so dead sons and fathers might well be considered an honour if it's all "blood and soil" mentality. Gotta have some converts to the cause or else the authoritarian structure doesn't work.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    At the risk of seeming like I view the world with rose tinted glasses, I think that the negative spin on the US Congressional machinations is wrong, and that there is clearly a deal to be done and it is within sight.

    I have said several times before, and repeat it, that the US populace losing interest in Ukraine doesn't make it harder for the vote to go through; it actually makes it easier, because when the debate comes up, the border security and immigration reform issues will be the main controversy, Israel the second, and even though the lions share of the money is currently earmarked for Ukraine, this is the least controversial of the three issues so will probably take the least airtime.

    Although Russian propaganda pushes the narrative that the number of people who think the US is spending too much on Ukraine is increasing, and it is significantly increasing, what is ignored by them is that the people who think that the same amount or even more support for Ukraine is still the majority when the two are put together, and that thinking there should be less spending on Ukraine does not mean thinking that there should be no spending on Ukraine.

    Further, it is important to remember that the ask of $60bn for 2024 would, if delivered, be the largest yearly support for Ukraine so far. Up to October, 2023 they have given $68.9 to Ukraine, so in one year they would be giving 87% of what they had given over the last year and three quarters, or approximately 50% more per month next year than over the first 21 months of the conflict.

    I suspect that they will not get the $60bn ask. Instead, the Republicans will reduce it dramatically and call it a win. I would expect the amount to be somewhere between $20 and $40bn, that is to say any less than $20bn will be very disappointing, and over $40bn will be a massive boost for Ukraine.

    However, a much more significant factor is that as people lose interest in the details of what is given to Ukraine, the US could change how they describe the monetary value of the donated equipment. A big factor in cost is a contribution to development costs, which are usually shared between the US Defense Dept and the private companies, and economies of scale. Thus, the sticker price for a GMLRs rocket for export can be $200k, but they can be sold in bulk to the US Army for $100k. The book value of these rockets will often decrease depending on when they were made - a GMLRs that was made in 2013 is now 10 years old and might have cost $75k at the time.

    Lets say that the US decides to give 100 GMLRs rockets to Ukraine and then orders 100 replacements to be made. If they want to highlight how valuable their donation to Ukraine is, they can say that this is worth $20m - that is to say that if, say Poland, wanted to buy 100 GMLRs directly from Lockheed Martin that is how much it would cost them. But equally, the amount actually paid by the U.S. Treasury is $10m to buy them at the reduced army rates. Moreover, if they were based on book value it could be as low as $7.5m.

    If the President of the US wants to talk about how big a contribution they are making, the $20m sounds great. The Congress might, however, account for this as $10m because that is how much money goes out of the coffers to increase the production. And the Pentagon's own internal audit might say "hold on, we have given $7.5m worth of old stocks to Ukraine". This is not a new problem, but it is often left out of the discussion on Ukraine. The Pentagon often fails its audits, partially, I suspect, for this reason:

    But it also explains the "accounting error" of $6bn earlier this year:


    And this is the complexity of one of the more basic items of military aid. Take the M39 variant ATACMs. Not only are these weapons old and some of which are of shorter range than the more modern ones, but they were slated for either repurposing or destruction as they contained cluster munitions. The cost of storage and destruction of old cluster munitions is huge. Based on an average of $1m per tonne of cluster munitions destroyed safely in the decade up to 2009, it can cost the US about half as much to store and make safe these weapons as it does to make modern versions of same. So, you could, if you had a mind to, donate 10 M39 Block 1 ATACMs to Ukraine that are slated for destruction at a cost of minus $5m.

    So looked at in the round, I can't see the U.S. Congress passing the full $60m, but nor can I see them giving nothing to Ukraine in 2024. Most likely, through a combination of a reduced voted figure and maybe some clever accounting, we will see a similar level of military aid to Ukraine in 2024 as we did in 2022 and 2023, if not an even greater level of military aid on the ground (if not in accounted monetary terms).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In related news, wannabe authoritarian and Putin crony Orbán is meeting similar conservative warts in Washington to discuss turning off Ukrainian aid, with an eye to a Republican presidency from 2025 onwards.

    Hungary constantly strikes as the Alabama of the EU, and its backslide on Democracy a repugnant stain within the bloc. It's a shame there aren't some core legal responses allowing for members reducing their democracy, cos their presence mocks the entire structure.

    You do wonder what Orbán's end game is here: Ukrainian support ends, Kyiv falls to a puppet, or even gets outright annexed. Then what?




  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Imagine being so stupid as to pay Russian criminals what little savings you have on promise of being able to transit Russia into EU

    only to be presented with an offer that can’t be refused of dying for the mafia boss




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's not just Poland,it's Slovakia and Hungary,they showed some trucks being brought in on train cars the other day claiming that the blockades has been broken ,I get the feeling that it's not happening at all as claimed



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭kksaints


    He'd probably try and annex the Hungarian speaking area of Ukraine if he thought he'd get away with it. The Treaty of Trianon's legacy is one that still hangs over Hungarian politics. In the survey referenced the article below 67% of Hungarians believed that parts of neighbouring countries belonged to them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    No trucks have entered Ukraine by rail yet.

    But trucks have entered Poland by rail and contained on by road.

    The video that's on line full version shows that the train entering Poland not exiting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Looks like a normal explosion in cold damp air , nothing unusual



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I had a feeling,was off line from Thursday night,seen it all over twitter people celebrating that they had somehow bypassed the blockades, any idea of the number of trucks now waiting last I seen it was close to 2000 trucks stuck at various locations that was over a week ago I think



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Not sure of the exact numbers now as over 1000 were allowed to be fast tracked at a different border crossing that opened a line to allow empty trucks through.

    To my knowledge the reason the trucks were railed into polland is due to backlog of polish trucks been blocked.

    Tit for tat I suppose.

    Surprisingly the border protests are not blocking incoming trucks only exiting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    Until the educated middle classes in Moscow, Petersburg etc are queuing for and stockpiling food scenes like this are irrelevant. In the same way they don't care about all the dead soldiers from provinces and prisons



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭deadduck


    ….



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭deadduck


    If you think about that situation for more than a few seconds, I’m sure it’ll be apparent that the immigrants caught up in this drafting/conscription are victims of desperation and circumstance, not stupidity



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Or in the Great War (2) celebrations I can show more medals than you......



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  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Roald Dahl


    thomil, thank you for taking the time to post this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,703 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Everything Russia has done to stymie the Ukrainian Summer offensive are things the AFU can do to make any hope of Russian advancement similarly grinding and slow. Short of a total collapse in international support, I don't see Russia making any great changes to the frontline, especially if Ukraine takes the aid its getting and focuses it on defence and let Russian grunts run at their guns.

    It's not so much that the long haul suits Putin. If the long haul suited him, then why would Russia have attempted a rapid combined arms operation in Feb 2022, as if they wanted to achieve their military aims quickly and with minimum casualties? Pretty much like every invading army would look to do, because no one actually wants a long haul. It's he who must suit the long haul because it is the only avenue left to achieving his ambition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    What I meant about the long haul really was Putin can sustain it by the looks of things he has plenty of bodies who he has no regard for to send to the front .I don't know the full cost to Ukraine in terms of losses but it must be high .At the moment it looks like a bit of a stalemate so it looks a tall order for Ukraine to get the total victory most of us want .Can they keep up the support hopefully they can but some countries seem to be wavering a little .Unfortunately Putin doesn't seem to be as isolated as many of us hoped watching him this week in the UAE and sanctions don't appear to be hitting the well heeled in Russia which is the only real chance of stirring up something .



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Putin is what 71 now in a country with sub Saharan male life expectancy (probably lower now thanks to himself) with no clear succession to the throne of Empire which will likely lead to a civil war as everyone scrambles for power in the most sanctioned country.

    Time is not on his side.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Putin has always lived a healthy lifestyle and probably gets healthcare and nutrition on the level of the queen. If he lives another 20 years it wouldn't surprise me.

    My only hope is he's stressed to bits with how badly this war is going and as we all know stress kills. It's a real shame his not already in his eighties.

    On a side now anybody know how many weeks this all out assault in Avdiivka has been going? I feel like it's 6 week's now but maybe it's more. Wouldn't it be great if we reached the New year and Russia didn't make any gains.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Cancer and Russian political “heart attacks” don’t care for lifestyle or diet much.

    Putin quite obviously wanted a quick war over in weeks if not days, and cement his name in history books, the attempts to reframe and reinvent Putin as some sort of 42D chess genius with some sort of long term plan when just this summer we got an example of just how naked this emperor would be funny if so many people were not dying because of his hubris.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Having lots of bodies to throw at the lines in Ukraine to make minimal gains for the cost of thousands won't be enough to bring anything close to victory in Ukraine for putin in my opinion. The Ukrainian armed forces have made serious inroads into making putin's war machine less effective and that will mean continued attacks by putin's forces will continue to cost more and more as they have less effective weapons to strike at the Ukrainians. The latest count by Ukraine for artillery systems they have knocked out is over 8000 and it has been said that early success in attacks by putin's forces relied on this artillery to damage the Ukrainian defensive lines before the troops were sent in. As time goes on attacks by putin's forces will keep costing more and the Ukrainians who have joined the armed forces to defend their country will continue to improve as a fighting force even if that means needing to rely more on their own arms industry as time goes on.

    It may be convenient now for putin, that any opposition to his power can simply be sent to the front lines to die, but for a country to hemorrhage the huge numbers of people at the start of their economically productive lives is going to cripple the russian federation for long into the future. They have the largest area of land of any one country but even before the invasion of Ukraine lacked the manpower to make full use of their available resources. It is easy to put on a veneer of affluence for the select few in moskow but in recent days we have seen images of ques for food in parts of putin's empire and in spite of some believing the elite still being happy in the big cities is all that is important I think the people mourning their children that putin has sent to their deaths for nothing will get a taste for action to depose him once they realise they face starvation and misery if he stays in power. A happy elite will not be able to protect putin in the face of the millions who should stand up to his brutality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    The question is when if ever the masses rise up doesn't look likely as until they do little will change .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go




This discussion has been closed.
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