Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Half the cost of finance is for the acquisition of the land and not just the construction.

The financing of the land will be the cost plus profit (which in most cases will be to the same developer) that was paid to acquire the land. So providing zero finance on this is the same as just giving money to the developer.

Because most developers will have held the property in a separate investment company which they purchased the land from at a profit. the overall profit/margin (if you include the profit on the sale of land from the investment company to the construction company) is way higher than what is shown in the report.

I think ye missed the headline in the indo article, it would imply that construction workers are being let go. As I said at the start of the year the state should have had ready to go projects for this predictable outcome

Slowdown in construction as staffing levels now taking a dive for first time this year

How do you know that developers buying land from themselves is what is recorded in the SCSIs land acquisition cost figures?

it all depends on what you want, i know if we went at it 100k wouldnt scratch the surface because i know how much money we already have put into a new build. If you start repaintng with F&B or Benjamin Moore paint and get it done properly you could already be 15-20k in, window dressings are a fortune as are solid wood floors, custom joinery etc etc, do a bit of a job on the garden and you could be 100k deep pretty quick. In fact id reckon my missus would do a good job at speccing a 100k kitchen, she has a nose for expensive stuff 😂

But equally if you arent as concerned with higher end materials, paints, craftsmanship etc 100k could go a long way (not for any rebuilding but as a general update).

A €60k kitchen would do it alright!

You could have a very very good kitchen supplied and fitted for 20k depending on your tastes - all depends on priorities I suppose but if I were looking to get on the ladder still I would be buying 2nd hand, gutting kitchen myself and 20k would be plenty - save the other 80k for windows/insulation/MHRV or heat pumps.

You wouldnt get the very same finish as a new build, but if you buy 2nd hand you may well end up with a bigger house which you can always improve over time.

New builds are quite poky for my taste, especially gardens.

No absolutely agreed €60k was total overkill on over the top appliances. I don’t think it could have been done for much less than €30k though to achieve the quality you see in a new build (I.e. not Ikea and Whirlpool).

I agree with your sentiments and it’s exactly what we did - paid less up front to hopefully get something which can be improved over time. Also not a big fan of new build plots/layouts.

But if you place importance on pristine quality with everything snagged to perfection (and a 10 year home bond), high quality appliances and kitchens/bathrooms etc. I think new builds are actually cheaper in the long term than trying to replicate it in a second hand house.

Of course the state would like to solve the housing crisis. The State does not want the hazzle of being a landlord. Do you in all honesty think the State would sanction and eviction from social housing for outstanding rent?

No politician in their right mind would vote for this. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

The SCSI report will show profit/loss as per construction company accounts…..They will have no access to investment company accounts and the whole purpose of setting up companies like this is to treat the land a separate investment and unrelated to the construction company.

How do you stimulate activity in the private sector? You give incentives. You can't force builders to build if its not profitable to do so.

We don't have the capacity to build both private and social housing in the quantities we need so we try balance a bit of both to try keep people happy.

If they could solve the housing crisis they would why are Sinn Fein gaining in the polls? Their main topics are health and housing. They claim they can fix the housing problem I am not sure they can. Maybe they can maybe they can't I honestly don't know.

My view is FF/FG are unwilling to do what is needed to solve the housing crisis. They would otherwise at the very least be fixing egregious things such as the NIMBY/BANANA-prone planning system.

Whether they are able to solve the crisis is a seperate question. However there is no point trying to seperate fact from fiction about logistics/costs/etc if the black-and-white willpower is not there.

We will have to agree to disagree so. While the planning process may play a part (a small one in my view) in our current situation I think we must lower standards so build costs will reduce.

I only had a discussion with my Dad recently about the whole issue. We purchased in the early 70's and you got four walls and a roof.

Current new builds need nothing up to and including floors, tiles, built in wardrobes etc. By all means build energy efficient homes but should they be finished with flooring etc? How much are these extras costing?

The need to lower standards? I honesty do not know. Having witnessed a BER assessment of my then-rented apartment back in 2019 I have no faith in that system, and I doubt I would want to live in the hermetically sealed conditions a top A rating would require.

I suppose the big question is: What has the government done that actually brings the cost of housing down? Stuff like HAP is a cheat to maintain prices. If you think the answer is zilch then we are not in much disagreement.

Nail - head

FFG won't do anything that brings house prices down. increasing price is the only way they will go so they can turn to the electorate and say we've doubled the housing budget therefore we are forever tied to boom bust economics when it comes to housing

Energy efficiency does not mean you need an A rated home.

I have a house built early 70's and I have insulated some of it and am insulating as I can afford to do so.

HAP has nothing to do with keeping prices high, it is a result of failure to manage the existing social housing supply and introducing more supply as needed.

Our social housing system is broken. I am sorry but I don't accept the concept that once you turn 18 people go on to the housing list and after a number of years get their "forever home". By all means the State should support people who have tried to house themselves but not those who don't even try.

For context both of my nieces in their late 20's have purchased second hand houses with partners in the last three years and both earn the average wage and did not receive family support.