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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    Migration will have the brakes put on it sooner rather than later. Encouraged emigration will more than likely happen too, whatever flavour it takes.

    There are no ifs or buts about the end point of this decade long fiasco.

    A genuinely far-right ideology of mass importing extra people to commodify societies infrastructures, break it in the process, and then suck up the broken value was destined to failure from inception.

    Anyone thinking that the results of such society-destroying profiteering is going to calm down, or go away, or work itself out are just delusional. There isn't a child in this country that isn't going to be living the negative results of this far into adulthood. I wouldn't wager on them being happy campers.

    Everyone involved is going down, sooner or later, so the best advice would be to take their ill gotten money and disappear while the going is good. It'll be the tribunal to end tribunals, but with actual consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There are 44 million Muslims in Europe. How many of those are involved in criminality and illegal behaviour, would you say?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Migration will continue. Perhaps at a slower pace, in the short term.

    I think the govt are kite flying with the reduction in benefits for Ukranians ahead of the election and are trying to make ground on SF as we turn into the home straight, ahead of election time.

    But migration itself will continue. Just as it always has.

    Whether it will be more controlled or not, remains to be seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    In the early to mid 2010s, we actually had net migration i.e. more people were leaving the country than arriving. Strangely, this was no utopia and we still had a housing crisis (lots of stories of homeless families having to be accommodated in hotels).



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    I'm not talking about the short term. Migration is going to end.

    Speaking of the next perhaps 5 to 10 years, there is already a ballooning population of adults that have had their future sold out by this mass migration policy. How long are they going to sit back and tolerate that?

    Arr they going to wait, in the case of housing, another decade or more for building to both catch up and overtake the artificial demand that already exists? And that's based on there being an end to migration tomorrow.

    What about a 15 year old looking at what's happening. Are they going to cheer on waiting until their 30's for something positive to happen?

    Not a hope. So yes, I agree that migration isn't going to end soon as in a year or two, but it might be a real shocker at how quickly this nonsense is going to turn around.

    The government are responsible. It has been a deliberate move to increase the population artificially in order to financialise it. They, and the swarm around them, had the motive, means and opportunity to do so.

    The status quo simply will not be tolerated much longer. Its hanging by a thread. Sinn fein are going to come and go because they'll be afraid of the money, and it'll make way for the utter upheaval of Irish cronyism. It won't be nice, I dont fancy living it out, that's for sure. But again, this was only ever going to end explosively.

    People will be held accountable for this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Paul_Hacket


    No apology. The statements you like to are government policy - they are not a legal requirement on the Irish state. The whole point of a large amount of this thread is that our policies are wrong and should be changed. There is no REQUIREMENT for our state to grant these benefits, and the fact that they are being granted to economic migrants who are showing up at our airports having destroyed their passports on the plane and then claiming asylum/refugee status is the whole problem. These policies could be changed by the government in the morning if we chose. One of the main reasons they haven't been changed is that misguided people like you are dominant in the media and there is therefore no reflection in the press of the overwhelming frustration of the general population in Ireland with these policies.

    Let me say one more thing to you. You probably consider yourself a liberal or progressive person, I imagine? Believe it or not, I consider myself one too. However in effectively arguing for untrammeled immigration by any and all who wish to come to this country - and stubbornly denying the rational argument of those who point out that this is madness - you are doing your cause a great deal of harm. I have lived in several coumtries which have experienced high degrees of immigration in the last several decades and in each case society has become less cohesive (and broadly - less pleasant) and god awful right wing parties and politicians have either come to power or dangerously near to power due to the fact that the native populations in those countries have become frustrated with their government's immigration policies. This is the reason we had Brexit. This is the reason that Trump was elected and this is the reason right wing governments have recently been elected in the Netherlands, Sweden, etc, some of the most liberal countries in Europe. Ordinary people will not put up with this "right on" self-defeating nonsense endlessly.

    Also, nobody is saying that Ireland will become an Islamic state but they are saying that Islamic values are a danger to liberalism in this country as Muslims who come here and are granted citizenship will have the vote - and guess what? They are not likely to vote for policies which progressives and liberals would like to see enacted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭jmreire


    It's not criminality as such, we have always had criminality. But a religion that is contrary to western culture, is a horse of a completely different color. And some of these practices are definitely illegal in the west., female genital mutilation being just one. And for another, it's a religion that extremist organizations draw their authority and modality from, ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qaida, Hamas etc. And as has been seen, a very tiny minority of its followers can and do wreak havoc in society, The beheading of schoolteacher Samual Paty is a recent example. And it's not the people per se, it's the actual religion itself that's the problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    There is simply no comparison.

    The housing crisis of 2012 versus the absolute fiasco of today?

    Not remotely comparable, both in scale and in reason.

    There are people in villages and towns the breadth and length of the country protesting about the arrival of neverending refugees. The latest is in wexford. And that's just refugees, a small part of migration.

    Just consider the dire nature of the fact that the government are attempting to shunt hundreds of people into villages in the back end of nowhere. Take a moment to think on the implications of that, right now in the middle of the worst housing crisis ever known in the country, and think about what on earth could possibly evolve out of those situations 5 years from now, 10 years from now.

    Anyone defending such lunacy is simply a lunatic. Well that's not true, actually, they are either profiting from the crisis, or a lunatic. Pick and choose.

    There is no good ending to this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    The irony of ironies is how this is being presented as a right versus left ideology problem, whereas the encouragement and defence of mass migration is pure corporate shilling through and through.

    Irish society is undergoing the most transparent profiteering it has ever seen. Whether it is the housing crisis/mass migration, cheap labour replacement in everything from spar shops to hospitals, repurposing necessary infrastructure to ensure pent up demand for asset pricing (nursing homes to refugees centres, for example), and more and more besides.

    Cultural erosion and violent outbreaks are simply icing on the cake.

    You couldn't get a more outstanding example of social destruction for profit, and yet the bad guys calling it out are being deemed the far right, and the defenders of this disgrace are the left? Really?

    It's a crazy world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We will always need some levels of migration to support the economy and of course irish born people will migrate to other countries for work/life experience etc.

    IPO migration isnt going to stop either, as we see more war and famine across the globe.

    How we manage the IPO migration in particular is an interesting question, but i dont see any of the major parties championing a restrictive approach.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    It's just not going to work out that way.

    We live on a planet that is running out of resource.

    Migration as a whole is practically history.

    The future is self reliance, efficiency and making do with what one has. And it will be defended with increasing violence.

    The likes of some, not all, international organisations know what's coming. To pick a couple that are entirely out of place are the oecd and imf. They are predicated on the laughably out of date notion of infinite growth. Guess who loves mass migration?

    I agree with you on the major parties today. They're imf clones in their outlook, there is no way they are going to buck the trend in societal fragmentation for profit, sinn fein included. And that's why all of them are destined for the bin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    But who to replace them?

    There wont be any change if the govt isnt driving that change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭toucheswood


    What we'll see is a turnaround from an arrogant form of governance that tells people what they are expected to do, to the far saner governance that lives solely on mandate.

    There are no parties in this country ready to take that mantle, never mind that the ones in power or about to be in power are defunct.

    Well see this across the continent at varying speeds. An ever increasing turnaround of government until the right one fits.

    Turbulent times ahead. As a I said above, anyone expecting an average teenager of today, having witnessed the very simply explained erosion of the nation, is not going to stick their hands in their pockets until their 50's and do nothing. There's a reckoning coming in some shape or form, make no mistake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Time will tell, as they say.

    I dont see any new party bearing down on the current big three, though.

    The EU stance on immigration will continue to influence our steer.

    There are obviously some right wing uprisings across europe, but I still dont see any major change here because there is no party promoting immigrational change.

    If the govt can moderate the IPO numbers coming into Ireland and increase the housing output over the next 5 yrs at the same time, that would be a big step forward towards taking the heat out of the issue for the general public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Convinced some of it stems from a hangover of cheaper labour after the crash.

    Businesses had it good to a certain extent due to this. Want to replicate it again or have it indefinitely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    It's no coincidence they are cutting Ukrainian benefits unless they move out and find their own accommodation. The government badly needs to free up their spots so the bus loads of African, Arab, Albanian and Georgian men can keep flowing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    On Georgia, my company has an office there, so I relocated for 2 years to Tbilisi.

    When i signed my lease - November last year my rent was triple what it should have been due to the influx of russians, but it normalised around mid year, lots of russians left to turkey, middle east and south america. So while for your average Georgian prices are higher now than pre-war - they arent that much higher.

    I came back in May for a few days before going off on holidays with the family, there was a Georgian Dad (probably mid 40s) and son (around 10) who were on my plane Tbilisi -> Munich -> Dublin, just before we landed he went to the bathroom with their passports - made no attempt to hide them. Came back out without the passports. I said it to the immigration officer but he just shrugged his shoulders.


    My experience as an EU citizen trying to enter (and even sometimes leave) Georgia is completely different, I have been brought into interview rooms several times, most experiences last for 30-60 mins, one lasted for over 3 hours. If i turned up without my passport, i'd be put back on the same plane pretty damn quick.

    Ireland, Germany and a few other (desirable) european countries are viewed as a soft touch. Georgians come here, claim asylum, try and do some cash only work and then go home with that money.


    fwiw, i have been to South ossetia and Abkhazia, there's no threat or active war there. There are russian soldiers but tbh not many that i seen.

    Post edited by helimachoptor on


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Other countries in Europe will eventually get all their ducks in a row on immigration, and Ireland will be seen as a soft touch place for other bigger, more influential E.U members to dump pesky Refugees/Asylum Seekers in.

    Ireland will happily oblige as we are the best boys in the class.

    We’ll learn eventually, but by then it’ll be far too late. They don’t say ‘Paddy last’ for nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,589 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I think what the government passed last night had to be done.

    We were too soft on the numbers coming here, which simply weren't sustainable. We are full and have run out of accommodation.

    The fact that it was reported so many immigrants were arriving in Ireland as their 2nd European destination shows it was being done for financial reasons by many of them. It shouldn't have been made that easy for them, but the damage is done now.

    Hopefully we will now see a dramatic slow down in arrivals. Let some of the other eu partners take their share.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    It is going to come to a head very soon so I don't see that happening.

    We are literally at full capacity where we are filling hotel rooms and putting people in tents.

    We have 500,000 adults living at home who we should be building houses for.

    We have people arriving here each week and we are not building enough houses to house them nevermind the lack of housing we have for people here.

    We are closing in on a recession where we could have huge job loses meaning a big tax hit for the goverment and we won't be able to sustain this.

    I can't see this madness going on for much longer to be honest.

    The damage is already well and done but they will have to put an end to any further madness soon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Most analysts say that we have a booming economy and full employment but that infrastructure and services have simply failed to keep up i.e. the government have totally dropped the ball and failed to plan properly for a growing population.

    But identifying immigration as the 'problem' is a slightly skewed way of looking at it. I saw one expert on housing for example say we would need to bring in around 100,000 skilled construction workers in order to solve the current housing crisis (we have nowhere remotely near enough Irish construction workers in the country to build the houses).



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭baldbear


    Yeah. Appears that way. And renting out rooms when going back for Xmas . But I suppose it's to be expected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    The majority of our young construction workers are doing construction work in Australia.

    Why would you want to live in your parents bedroom knowing how unlikely it is you will own a house while building houses for people who arrived of the last plane.

    Did we have such a housing crisis before mass immigration where we now supposedly need 100,000 immigrants to build houses?

    Any chance you have a link to the expert who said we need 100,000 skilled and what metric he used and did he suggest where we can locate these 100,000 and where we are going to house them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I can't remember the article but the belief is we would need to be building around 50,000 houses a year for the next decade in order to solve the housing crisis. We have nowhere near enough Irish born construction workers to build those houses. There are currently around 160,000 construction workers in the country but to more than double the houses currently being built, you would need an extra 100,000 workers at least.

    You mentioned young Irish construction workers in Australia, but you're probably talking about 5k or something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Immigration is not the problem. We need folks from other countries to come here. Skilled workers like nurses, doctors etc as well as lower paid jobs. A lot of MNC pharma and tech jobs too.

    The problem is unchecked immigration and no verification of how folks intend to fund themselves here, and ultimately, our policies being too lax and supporting welfare tourism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Our government gave an amnesty 2 years ago to everyone in direct provision no matter how laughable their story was, while reiterating they wanted to give every asylum seeker the keys of their own pad after 4 months.

    Numbers have snowballed since.

    Our government decided to pay full welfare to Ukrainians which is multiples of what other European countries offered.

    Clowns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,883 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Can't even apologise for your insulting and abusive and wrong posts.

    What is it with posters and their ability to say sorry? Every social welfare payment in the country is covered by legislation. You might have noticed after every budget that they pass a new law, updating the legislation.

    So yes, it is policy and it is law.

    (Asylum seekers don't get dole, they get 38 euro a week)

    I have never argued for unlimited immigration, I believe we should have stricter laws regulating persons living in this country.

    I too have lived in other countries, and blaming the rise of the right wing on anybody but the right wing is just excusing, inexcusable behaviour.

    Oh and fyi, I have lived with Muslims, and there were no issues with 'liberal and progressive ' policies.

    Now, I have no time for people who cannot apologise for their abusive rants.

    we're done here.





  • sorry but I will not go to work day in day out bursting my bollox barely seeing my wife and kids so I can fund a welfare system that not only allows our own citizens to lay about like lazy lumps but also offer Ukrainian (or any other refugee) money hand over first.

    I will take this apron off, bin it and go on the dole meself. I’ve absolutely had it up to here with being labelled some sort of racist pig because I don’t agree with strangers to the country being given benefits that lifetime citizens wouldn’t get.

    there was a thread a few months back about an old age pensioner who wasn’t entitled to fuel allowance because they earned just above the threshold— so our citizens can freeze in their old age but Jesus Christ don’t dare take away the Ukrainians money..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The residents of rosslare have decided that 3 refugee centres are more than enough enrichment for them and are objecting to a fourth.

    Our D4 betters will lambast them in the media over it. Interestingly D4 got 6 asylum seekers last year. No, that's not 6 centres , 6 people!

    Now can everyone light a candle for the refugee industry this Christmas as it enters choppy waters with more n more towns saying thanks but no thanks!




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Have you a link to where building 50,000 houses over a decade will solve the the crisis and what metrics are used?

    Have you a suggestion of where we would put 100,000 skilled workers for the first two years.

    It would take 2 years to build 100,000 houses to accomadate these people and is that factored into the decade time period?



This discussion has been closed.
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