Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

They are going to have to, no one in Europe will be willing to defend our economy, or global economic stability.

Is 'Israel' so hard to spell?

When they all share a single brain cell, yes.

It wasn't great before the first oil well went in either.

We hear about the greater jihad, the struggle against the inner demons of the self etc but in the faith the only thing that guarantees entry to heaven is military jihad. The only thing that absolves even the most awful sin is military jihad.

To paraphrase Mohamed. The greater jihad isn't worth a bag of warm piss, even just raising the sword above your head is worth a life time of prayer.

The bit about raising the sword is a direct quote from the warlord himself.

I'm not an Israeli cheerleader but I brought up the Deir Yassin massacre ages ago and I also noted that Israel was founded by people who were considered terrorists at the time, and I consider terrorists still.

Acknowledging that Hamas are oppressive Islamic fundamentalist terrorists who are willing to see tens of thousands of their own people die in their heavenly sponsored quest to kill every Jew in Palestine doesn't mean that I'm a fan of the actions of the Israeli Government or the IDF. Questioning the characterisation of the current IDF campaign in Gaza as genocide doesn't mean I condone it. In the real world outside the childish binary void that is the internet there is nuance and context and detail and those things matter.

So a Jihad in smoking is when you want to stamp out and eradicate smoking.

A Jihad on poverty is when you want to stamp out and eradicate poverty.

And a Jihad on Israel... yea, got it.

The word in Arabic means "Effort" and can be applied to any endeavor as I have mentioned. So yes, that's what it means. Muslims use the term a lot in their personal everyday lives when striving for something. They ask Allah's help in their Jihad against tobacco, for example, or their children's efforts to pass their exams. Etc. It can be applied to anything. And it's not "A Jihad", its simply "Jihad".

Yes, the hypocrisy is startling. It goes back to what I said earlier; I am appalled by war crimes when the side I oppose commit them, but when the side I support commit them, then they are a 'mistake'- there is a context. This is why some will rant about the violence of others, but defend to the hilt violence pursued in the name of ideals they believe in. All the while oblivious to their own double standards on the use of violence . This is why they can be appalled by the savagery of Hamas, but will stay silent in relation to settler violence and the brutal actions of Lehi in the past. Who in reality were no different to Hamas in their bloodlust and savagery.

It has already happened. Israel is a busted flush on the international stage : most people in future will think 'terrorist state' rather than western liberal democracy when their name comes up. They've let the mask slip a good bit in the last couple of months.

This is journo Owen Jones

My transcript:

Scroll to: 14:30 / 25:23

Owen Jones said:

“Watching this film of horrors, and they are horrors, does not lead me to want to support other horrors. Watching innocent civilians being killed in Israel does not make me more likely to support killing more innocent civilians in Gaza. Indeed, several times over more innocent civilians. The fact that this is controversial. And I know that for those who supported the screening and its purpose find this controversial, is absurd. You have a choice when you learn of the horrors that humans are capable of inflicting against each other, you either allow these horrors to deepen your humanity, or you use those horrors to numb your humanity, so that you can become complicit in even more, and indeed often, greater horrors. This is a very basic and fundamental lesson from human history which is never learned, with a grave human cost.” […]

0:49 / 25:23

‘I Watched The Hamas Massacre Film. Here Are My Thoughts.’

Nov 27, 2023​

"I was invited to watch a screening - organised by the IDF - of the Hamas atrocities committed on 7th October. Here's my response in detail. "When you learn of the horrors which humans are capable of inflicting against each other, you either allow these horrors to deepen your humanity or you use those horrors to numb your humanity so that you can be complicit in even more, and indeed often, greater horrors."

StarryPlough01: ^ Owen Jones couldn’t go along with the purpose of the screening. What happened does not justify the genocide in Gaza. There is one act of terrorism that is seared into Owen’s memory.

The Israeli police admitted there's a lack of forensic evidence. The women (girls?) weren’t questioned by trauma informed health agencies / professionals.

I also heard reports and read that the Israeli health agencies did not ask the women about rape. These people are appropriately trained in cultural competency… and how to frame sensitive questions, etc. It could even be in the form of a questionnaire. It didn't happen. We await the conclusion of the Israeli investigation, with documented evidence, for public scrutiny.

TIMES OF ISRAEL

‘Amid war and urgent need to ID bodies, evidence of Hamas’s October 7 rapes slips away’

‘Despite definitive witness testimony, global skepticism persists about the terrorists' sexual crimes. ToI investigates how a mass-casualty event in a war zone made forensic determination impossible’

By Carrie Keller-Lynn

9 November 2023, 3:18 pm

https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-...nce-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/

Yes, economies built on primary industry are more likely to be ruled by autocratic governments. Once an economy requires a well educated workforce and a domestic consumer market it is harder to maintain that top down system of government. When you think of dictators or dictatorial government around the world, from Russia to Venezuela to the Gulf States to many African countries they usually have economies that are mainly reliant on the export of primary produce. Where they don't the government usually relies on the sponsorship of a large foreign power. Examples of these include the dictators that the US kept in power in Central and South America.

And in the context of what was being chanted at that protest the meaning is unambiguous and is a call of a holy war against Israel.

I was talking about both Israelis and Palestinians. Just stating that all these people want is a quiet life, no trouble. just like me and you.

How you managed to conclude what you did is frankly astonishing, especially your last para.

where you ever in Israel?

And for the record - the snip of yours actually referred to the Palestinian carpenter I used to give a lift to, if you read carefully...

But the phrase would equally apply to the very elderly Jewish father of a Jewish friend.

I don't think he is

The longer this drags on the danger for him is if enough of his base stay at home and abstain in protest the swing votes might not be enough. His polling numbers have been very poor of late. He has been very pro Israel throughout his career, so I see his stance on current events as being a consistent position of his rather than him just seeing which way the wind is blowing.