Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Well I guess that makes it all ok then.

‘Intolerable’: EU official condemns destruction of Palestinian school built using Irish Aid funds – The Irish Times

Would it be correct to assume then that any/all hostages are no longer in those tunnels?

So, assuming Israel continues destruction of civilian infrastructure in Gaza (last I read 60% of living accommodation was destroyed/damaged beyond use) gone), where will whatever is left of the Palestinian population live or go?

And if that is the case, is Israel not simply perpetuating what has been going on since the 1940s - i.e. they will remain surrounded by people and nations that bear a very strong grudge against them? And therefore they are destined to be forever afraid of whatever might happen next? It all seems so pointless. I see no "win" here for Israel.

Talks on a two-State solution would surely be in everyone's interest?

It's not in interest of the Israeli right. The last thing they want is a political settlement.

This is why they propped up Hamas over the last few years.

Yes - the irony of propping up a terrorist organisation.

But if the right becomes overwhelmed by local and international pressure (elections perhaps?) and Netanyahu (and others) gets the comeuppance reported on since the start of this conflict/war, surely the only game in town is a two state solution? Or continue with the deja vu.

I see Biden said today that Israel does not get to say "no" to a two-state solution.

The reason I'm on this track - whilst looking for reference to the Irish funded school blown up earlier this week, I thought I'd found a source. Until I looked at the date of the report. You'd be hard pressed to figure out the report was from July 2014 and not in the last couple of months.

'The world stands disgraced' - Israeli shelling of school kills at least 15 | Benjamin Netanyahu | The Guardian

So, how the heck does this end? The wiping out/forced repatriation of all Palestinians or a two-state solution? Or something else?

First of all, mathematically speaking, your position on Israel and the Jews is not sound given that a plurality of the worlds Jews live in Israel.

Jews - Wikipedia

So I reject your accusation of anti-Semitism out-of-hand. IMO There is no solution to the Middle East problem unless it includes safety for the 7 to 7.5 million Jews who live in Israel. Secondly, all the stuff I highlighted isn't targeting Israelis, like the mob in Cooper Union or the protest in Australia where the delightful people waving the Palestine flags outside the Sydney Opera House. They were all very clearly targeting Jews. "Israel" was just the scapegoat, if it was even relevant at all.

Secondly, you cannot blame Elon Musk or the "far right" or whatever for anti-Semitism since the above actions had nothing to do with the Right.

Thirdly, the fact that those who do want to actually gas the Jews supposedly don't have the power to do so right now, isn't really reassuring. There was a time when a certain moustachioed painter was just rabble rouser in the beer halls in Germany.

As to what I favour, I'm not in support of any particular action by Israel or another, per-se. But I am broadly in support of their right to exist and to do whatever is necessary to annihilate groups like Hamas, PIJ etc. Because these groups have made it clear that this is a fight to the death.

It has nothing to do with hostages or Hamas. Pumping in seawater will destroy the few aquifers that Gaza has. Just another step in the great big game of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

The fact that a plurality of the worlds Jews now live in either Israel or the Disputed Territories, clearly and flatly contradicts most of that rubbish. It is mathematically nonsense. Calling for the destruction of Israel with chants like "From the River to Sea" would directly imperil about 7.5 million Jews.

Supporting the right of these people to exist in safety is not anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitism is what we've seen on US college campuses and among the Left mirroring the call of Iran and Hamas for the 7.5 million Jews to be driven From the River into the Sea.

Maths and facts have everything to do with it. 7.4 million Jews - a plurality the total, depending on your count - live in Israel or the Disputed Territories. That's a fact. As to your piece, reviewed it briefly. Nothing there IIRC mentioned what would happen to the 7.4 million Jews if the anti-"Zionists" got their way.

Well, they tried various forms of a two-state solution (including accepting the original partition plan of 1947), then respecting revised borders until 1967 and most recently had abandoned the Gaza Strip in 2005, and none of it has worked ... so far.

THE GUARDIAN

Israeli military kills six in Jenin, Palestinian officials say – as it happened

UN general assembly votes to demand Gaza ceasefire ​

The UN general assembly overwhelmingly voted to demand an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza.​

The resolution for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire passed with 153 members voting in favor, 10 voting against, and 23 abstaining.​

The countries that voted against included:​

* The United States​

* Austria​

* Israel​

* Paraguay​

The United Kingdom voted to abstain.​

“The United Nations general assembly overwhelmingly voted to demand an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza. The ceasefire resolution passed with 153 members voting in favour, 10 voting against and 23 abstaining. The US, Israel and eight other countries – including Austria, Guatemala and Liberia – voted against the resolution.​

"The US looked increasingly isolated on the world stage after the UN ceasefire vote, which highlighted the stiffening consensus around the world for the need to stop Israel’s relentless assault on Gaza. In contrast, the previous UN resolution calling for a “humanitarian truce” on 27 October attracted 120 votes in favour and 14 against, with 45 abstentions.​

"Joe Biden said Israel was starting to “lose support” from the international community due to its indiscriminate bombing in Gaza. The US president added that Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu needed to change his hardline government.​

"Israeli tank shelling on Tuesday was focused on the centre of Khan Younis, southern Gaza’s main city, residents said. Israeli airstrikes there killed 11 Palestinians, including two children, health officials said. Further south in Rafah, bordering Egypt, strikes killed 22 people including children, officials said.​

Starry:

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and India. …. (as news breaks on which countries abstained) VOTED IN FAVOUR OF RESOLUTION.

BUT... UN should send in blue helmets now. That’s the only way this vote will mean anything at all.

‘Australia shifts position to vote in favour of UN resolution calling for Gaza ceasefire’

‘Australia joins 152 nations to vote for resolution that expresses grave concern over ‘catastrophic humanitarian situation in the Gaza’

Daniel Hurst and Katharine Murphy

Wed 13 Dec 2023

Australia shifts position to vote in favour of UN resolution calling for Gaza ceasefire

"Australia has voted in favour of a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza and an immediate and unconditional release of all hostages in an emergency session of the United Nations general assembly.​

"In a shift in position, Australia joined 152 other nations in voting in favour of the resolution on Wednesday morning. Canada and New Zealand also voted in favour.​

....​