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Have we lost our Patriotism?

13567

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    You should go over to Zelenskyy in the Ukraine and tell him that. You'd have the whole thing solved in two seconds.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Brussels and Washington DC both controlled by a banking, military and industrial cabal. Our politicians are in the main just figureheads. I wouldn't think there are many countries left in which the buck stops with it's elected politicians. Any country that wishes to really be free would need to be self sufficient in a lot of necessary items. Globalisation can leave countries susceptible to outside factors that greatly diminish their independence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭niallpatrick


    Real patriots nationalists and republicans should never capitulate, I never have when out numbered by loyalists in work and have the physical scars to prove it including a dent in my head. This BS 'for all of our people and children' I have scars and dents older then most of the fake wanabee 'OG's' running about the estates calling themselves Irish nationalists, patriotic to anyone who tells them what patriotism means as long as they know how to screw over a foreign occupying government.

    SF the stickies and IRSP will never make a dent in the British government coffers, but we need the US we need the EU bleat bleat bleat like sheep into a vat of caustic marking dye. Don't forget people that B-road linking two roundabouts together was funded by the EU and they won't let you forget it. It's the same as getting a mortgage for a house and having the mortgage provider put a massive sign outside letting everyone know you couldn't afford your own house and had to take a loan out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    Paddy has had enough of "patriotism", it's not acceptable for Paddy to be in that sort of mind frame anymore. No good for Paddy, only leads to trouble. Paddies should forget about the only homeland they have and only be solely concerned about other nations "patriotism". Nations like the Ukraine, Palestine, and whatever other place 8000 f**king miles away it will be next year.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Our politicians lack patriotism today as they genuinely seem far more concerned with getting the approval of foreigners and foreign entities than representing the views of people who actually live in this country.

    I don't care anywhere near as much about things that happen outside of Ireland because I don't live outside of Ireland if more of our politicians had that attitude I'd have more respect for them.Unfortunately they don't and a lot of our major politicians all seem to be eyeing up jobs in EU,UN and IMF and so they represent their interests first and foremost and not the people of Ireland.

    A lot of leftist politicians in this country genuinely seem to care more about Palestine than they do about Ireland for some bizarre reason.

    Of course if you point out that Irish politicians should put the people of Ireland first and foremost you'll get labelled as racist by the media.

    We need a more Ireland first approach from our politicians and they need to put the needs of the people of this country (many of whom are immigrants) first and foremost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    'Thank you for your service' and the likes of this newfound (9/11) false patriotism would make you sick.

    Vietnam vets treated like dirt for decades comes to mind.

    Most American's notion of freedom is 'the right to work 3 jobs to pay the rent'. I think that was a comment left here many years ago that resonates with me to this day.

    One f*cked up country.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Jesus Christ ACD, but you don't half make sweeping statements without a semblance of an attempt to back them up at times



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So patriotism should result in the complete discounting of people who have survived awful circumstances? Luck determines where we were born so I'm inclined to be far prouder of a nation that supports those in need when necessary. But by your logic that is not patriotic...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,124 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    This house wasn't around Camberwell with a lad named Alexander de Pfeffel by any chance was it 🤣



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Ironic considering he always asks other people to "prove it" .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭francois


    A lot of the over 40s didn't and warned about it Lazy stereotyping.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    This is the same USA where people are free to buy bags of weed legally in most states

    right? Right??



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can’t believe some of the stuff I’m reading here, no wonder the country is doing so badly socially.

    And the environment destroyed also



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    A fairly predictable reply. It's a recurring theme in your posts where you dump some sort of comment like that without any real attempt or even inclincation to discuss it.

    You can absolutely criticise our immigration policy, defend nationalism, not be Trump-esque, not be racist (which I think is your point - it's hard to tell when you just reply "No it isn't"). Arguably supporting the sort of immigration we see today is more problematic. The sort of people who say "We need migrant workers to work in our health system" don't care that many African hospitals are struggling for qualified workers because locals who qualify tend to emigrate to better-paid jobs (A rich life is better than a poor life, eh?). Or who say that Ireland has never been in a better place than today while ignoring how utterly unsustainable our society is. Lashing up houses - a very carbon-heavy activity - when we should be re-wilding. Flying people in from everywhere, and then not counting air traffic in our carbon footprint (and it's not in the national counts). And bigging up multi-culturalism while destroying our own.

    All these discussions are over-ridden when you dismiss people in one sentence. And you're a serial offender, I've noticed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There definitely is a cross transference with Palestine, funnily enough palestinians are less concerned with Western notions of state hood, socialism etc than 40 years, all viewed now as outside products.


    It is the creation of an Islamically pure entity and the return to the imperial caliphate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    I wonder if the “patriots” on thread are queuing up to sign up to the defence forces that can’t get people and/or pay more taxes to Irish defence (instead of continuing to rely on Brits to defend us)?


    Or is the definition of patriotism now has shifted to burning Luas trains and looting shoe shops while blaming “dem foreigners” who defend us from Russians or knife wielding crazies



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Gloria Putrid Gentry


    Borders are just arbitrary lines on a map, there's nothing wrong with easing off on the intense patriotism. It's a sign of being more secure in your Irishness. If you did a bit of psychoanalysis, the US and UK are into hyper patriotism probably because they're really insecure in themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Butson


    Have found as I've gotten older my patriotism and love for the country has more or less disappeared.

    Seems like we are just an economy now. Everything is about money and it feels like we have sort of sold our soul. I'm aware we are on island on the edge of Europe and needed a usp to attract investment, but there is deffo something gone that made Ireland what is was. People are so serious and the craic just seems to be gone now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Funny how those who never have a good word to say about the country and the Irish in general are the ones in here telling others what is and isn't the right kind of patriotism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    I think the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum will take serious offence to “arbitrary lines on map” comment while continuing to wave the Irish flag and campaign against defending this country (and hence ironically leave it to the Brits)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The poor state of our defence forces is an embarrassment to the country, I'd be far more willing to pay taxes to improve our defence forces that some of the stuff my taxes have been wasted on over the years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    So will I, but the “patriots” who wrap themselves up in the flag spend decades campaigning against defence spending and fear mongering about conscription into some “EU army” all while continuing to rely on Brits to defend us



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Gloria Putrid Gentry


    Well to be fair as an island Ireland's border does kind of pick itself, I'm thinking more of mainland Europe for starters. For example Alsace being French and not German is an accident of history and arbitrariness. People living in Alsace have more in common with those living in Germany than those living in Pays Basque, who in turn have more in common with Basques living in Spain. Yet they are both within the borders of France. Arbitrary.



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  • Posts: 0 Ramona Uneven Fur


    Men having less T year by year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Wasting taxpayers money on loads of things is what Ireland does better than any other country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    People who never dreamed of being nationalists and wrapping themselves in the flag 20 years ago and now finding themselves in this position

    amazing to see the ones who claimed that flag at that time turning their back on their own people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    At the same time you had generations of children being physically and sexually abused by priests, babies taken from mothers, mass graves of children, so many women stuck in abusive relationships with nowhere to turn, repressed homsexuality, mass emigration, unemployment, widespread alcoholism...

    This is the ireland the patriots pine for, I'll take the modern ireland with the odd foreign nutjob thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,281 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I thought I accidentally lost mine once. Found it in the lining of my coat though. Had a small hole in my pocket.



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  • Border in Shinners head:

    Border to most other people:




  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    Patriotism in ireland is for the man-child. They fill a hole in their development with crap like patriotism and conspiracy theories as compensation. Awful lot of man-children in Ireland on social media these days. Boring boring people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭Augme



    There is Defford something gone that made Ireland what it was


    The poverty that made Ireland a shithole or the Catholic Church that made Ireland a cesspit? Either way, good riddance to both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    The people who pretend that the past was nothing but negative aren't much better than those who think that it was nothing but positive. It's an incredibly simplistic way to look at thing, yet very convenient all the same I suppose.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I think posts like this are a bit problematic in terms of how biased they are. Let's list everything bad about the past, brush off one bad thing about the present, and call that a reasonable comparison.

    No mention of widespread drug use, mass immigration driving an unsustainable society (through increased consumption, carbon generation, and building over more land rather than re-wilding) and threatening to drown out our own culture, people stuck in their parents' homes unable to move out and live their own life (and a similar problem when it comes to affording to start a family), pre-teens being sent abroad to be given puberty blockers (often by an organisation which has since been shut down for incredibly concerning practices in that area - there's a scandal brewing there that'll match the Magdalene Laundries), increased obesity and the increasing prevalence of shite food (often forcefully marketed at kids), mobile phone addiction, the prevalence of "I'm offended" as a rational argument, and so on.

    This is the Ireland people like you support. Often these posts are tinged with a strange self-loathing too.

    What your post fails to contemplate is that as a society, we had a change to address the issues you raise (and they're relevant, and mostly actually resolved now), yet we've just replaced them with worse issues. And you don't attempt to find positives from the past - a greater sense of community, a more sustainable way of living, a more equal society (because now we utilise poor foreigners to push down wages on low-skilled jobs, and force them back towards the tenement ways of living we had been leaving behind), arguably even a society more at ease with itself, for all its problems.

    Which is correct? A mix of both I'd guess. But in your attempts to blindly dismiss everything about the past as bad, you override any attempt at a rational discussion on the issues. Which ultimately, I guess, is what the thread is about.

    You need to do better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    didn't dismiss anything, i just noted how bad some things were before we had immigration here, as some people romanticise it. generally wellbeing is a lot better here for all, and that's a good thing, regardless of the odd foreign person committing a crime.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I think you did dismiss it tbh - your post seemed clear enough. Past bad - present fine. Nothing really beyond that.

    Is general well-being a lot better for all now? With drug use, huge debts, a lack of housing, a loss of culture and identity, huge issues coming very quickly down the line in terms of climate and sustainability (that immigration - and indeed our own emigration - is contributing towards)?

    Your posts - a bit like acd's - seem a bit shallow in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    what culture and identity have we lost? my dad is 74 but i doubt either of us identify that differently, just 2 blokes from dublin



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭duck.duck.go


    Be careful falling into the media fueled perpetual sense of “crisis” this and “crisis” that

    you don’t even have to go back to 80s to see positive change, just compare now to post Great Recession Ireland where everything went wrong for majority of the population



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    A man, long ago, once wisely mentioned something very astute about "patriotism", "refuge" and "scoundrels".

    He even wrote a dictionary.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    every era has problems for sure, i for one am glad i'm not back in the ireland of the church dominated kip with no opportunities that everyone wanted to leave.

    myself and everyone i know in ireland are having good lives, make the most of it folks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    As we know for your posting history, you're in the "set for life" camp. And by your words most of your nearest are too. At least half of the nation aren't in your position, and wouldn't agree with your words, but what does that matter once you and yours and fine?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Esho


    The age of political and national patriotism is over in Europe. We are living in a globalised world now.

    We can have pride and cheer for our national teams, and show and have pride in our national character - friendliness, great community spirit, generosity to charity etc that's about the extent of it.

    That said, Ukraine, Israel and Turkey are very patriotic, don't know about other Eurovision countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭crusd


    Those likely to fall into homelessness in Ireland up to the 90's were likely to be shipped of to England on the first occasion they had a run in with the guards. We either exported our "problems" or hid them in institutions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    All you seem to do is bitch and moan about immigrants all day though, no wonder you see no good in this country. Try and be more glass half full like monk here x.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    That is the issue with a lot of people here. They see all of the political problems and blame all of it on immigration when the reality is immigration is actually not to blame for all the issues - it is successive Governments lack of planning and investment in a range of public services.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Culture is more than just you and your dad though. Culture is a much wider fabric.

    If you and your dad moved to Iran, say, you mayn't be any less Irish, but the culture you lived in certainly would be.

    Pubs are closing, accents and mannerisms are becoming more uniform, increasingly people are losing common background which often brought them together (Italia 90 being one of the best examples - the country will never be brought together like that again). As Ireland becomes less Irish, inevitably more Irish culture will be lost - probably songs and music, the GAA and so on.

    If you don't think culture is getting lost, you can read something like Patrick Leigh Dermot's trilogy of his 1933 walk across Europe to see just how much culture we've lost in that time.

    Peter Sutherland - who actively encouraged mass migration of course - even said that we need to forget the idea of national identity and culture. Is that really what we want?

    He didn't give a flying **** about sustainability or carbon or anything like that though. So his views really needs to be pilloried rather than followed



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Here's another poster coming along with the simplistic line of "immigration good; we just haven't built enough houses"

    This is going slightly off topic I acknowledge, but do you want to tell me where you see sustainability in our current rush to keep perpetually increasing our population?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Yes, yes, they should have clearly planned for 150 to 200,000 people if they planned to import them against the wishes of the people they supposedly represent, - ya know like maybe the Irish people.

    A referendum on that anti-Irish plan would have been in order..

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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