Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

StarryPlough01 · 13-12-2023 6:46am

More detailed info from AP

UN General Assembly votes overwhelmingly to demand a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza

By EDITH M. LEDERER

UN General Assembly votes overwhelmingly to demand a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza

“UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. General Assembly voted overwhelmingly on Tuesday to demand a humanitarian cease-fire in Gaza in a strong demonstration of global support for ending the Israel-Hamas war. The vote also showed the growing isolation of the United States and Israel.

"The vote in the 193-member world body was 153 in favor, 10 against and 23 abstentions, and ambassadors and other diplomats burst into applause as the final numbers were displayed. The United States and Israel were joined in opposing the resolution by eight countries — Austria, Czechia, Guatemala, Liberia, Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay.

…

“Tuesday’s vote showed major shifts in voting. More than 25 countries that abstained on Oct. 27 supported Tuesday’s cease-fire demand, including Albania, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Ethiopia, Finland, Greece, Iceland, India, Iraq, Japan, Latvia, Monaco, North Macedonia, Philippines, Poland, South Korea, Moldova, San Marino, Serbia, Sweden, Tunisia, Tuvalu, Vanuatu and Zambia.

"Croatia and Fiji went from voting no on Oct. 27 to voting yes on Tuesday, while Hungary, the Marshall Islands and Tonga went from voting no to abstaining.

Ulixes · 13-12-2023 9:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489421#Comment_121489421

I'm not aware of any posters here supporting genocide. I'm not even aware of any posters who are supporting the Israeli Government and the IDF's actions in Gaza. I'm not going to reply directly to the details of a post full of hyperbole and false premises. If you can only see this as a binary discussion, and from your post that seems to be the case, then there's little point in engaging with you further. Shrill pearl-clutching is not a sound basis for a discussion.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not accusing you of being at him level but there are echoes of that moronic anti-Semite Boyd Barrett in your posts.

brickster69 · 13-12-2023 9:30am

Chilling image out of Gaza.

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1734716483681288494

brickster69 · 13-12-2023 10:07am

Israeli communications minister

https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1734717736343765195

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-12-2023 10:23am

Israel demolished a cemetery because they could

https://x.com/EyeonPalestine/status/1734862614390268286?t=WARSAYvjCYrMxYufaxJnDQ&s=09

brickster69 · 13-12-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489789#Comment_121489789

Self defense, tunnels, command centre.

nacho libre · 13-12-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489009#Comment_121489009

I agree if Bibi and his Far right coalition along with Hamas are gone after this war there might be a chance for a political settlement. As things stands Bibi does not want the PA to take over in Gaza after the war,the Americans if the political will is there can force the issue , but will they is the question. All Bibi really cares about is staying in power this is the real reason he is intent on continuing the war, he hopes by crushing Hamas he can rehabilitate his image as Mr Security and remain in power. I don't think it will work, but it won't stop him from trying.

nacho libre · 13-12-2023 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489632#Comment_121489632

You are not aware of any poster supporting the IDF actions in Gaza. Do you have certain posters on ignore or not read through the discussion from where you left off, I ask because there are posters who fully endorse what the IDF are doing and have described them as using a kid gloves approach to Gaza. A view clearly at odds with how even their closest allies sees the war being conducted in Gaza.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489434#Comment_121489434

It has nothing to do with it. You are continually repeating the anti-Semitic trope that Jews = Israel. This is an anti-Semitic trope. You're proving my point that Israel and supporters of Israel are very happy to engage in genuine anti-Semitism if they feel that anti-Semitic propaganda narratives can benefit Israel. This is a morally bankrupt, principle-free position to hold.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489426#Comment_121489426

I can't stress enough that the Grayzone and anybody affiliated with it are a propaganda front for Russia and Russia's geopolitical interests and a cancerous tumour on the arse of public discourse. Max Blumenthal literally travelled to Moscow in December 2015 to be Putin's dinner guest and started the Grayzone a month later. He immediately went from being anti-Assad to being pro-Assad and fully in line with all Putin's positions, where he has remained ever since. Why? Because there's $$$$$$ in doing this.

I don't have a view of the US as being a heroic actor in the world at all. Outside of their contribution in Europe in the two World Wars and afterwards which we should all be thankful for, their contribution in the world has been overwhelmingly disastrous, borne of arrogant ignorance and often evil. Their position in regard to this conflict is morally outrageous, I do not think it would be over the top to describe it as evil and I say that as somebody who fervently wanted Biden to win the 2020 election and still hopes he wins the 2024 election given that the alternative is somebody who has referred to themselves as a dictator and threatens to plunge both America itself and the world into total chaos.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489437#Comment_121489437

The notion that Israel is not a settler-colonial state is as ludicrous as the notion that the US or Australia or Argentina are not settler-colonial states.

The absurd farce that is right wing "discourse" can be summed up by the fact that the far right in Europe absurdly fantasise about being genocided by peaceful migrants to their countries yet fervently support a settler-colonial state which was created by violence and is now committing genocide against the native population.

Ulixes · 13-12-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490065#Comment_121490065

I have seen posters support the need for the IDF to be in Gaza but I haven't seen posters support all of their actions. That's not saying there haven't been, I may have missed them. There are certain posters that I tend to ignore, though I haven't any on my ignore list.

It's interesting that Biden has said that Netanyahu needs to change the composition of his coalition, in other words ditch the crazies. Though in my opinion he's one of the crazies.

Ulixes · 13-12-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490223#Comment_121490223

"You're proving my point that Israel and supporters of Israel are very happy to engage in genuine anti-Semitism if they feel that anti-Semitic propaganda narratives can benefit Israel."

Surely you mean some supporters of Israel and some Israelis?

Ulixes · 13-12-2023 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490017#Comment_121490017

He wants to stay in power and therefore, crucially, out of prison.

nacho libre · 13-12-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490355#Comment_121490355

Yes, that's what I meant. He was even prepared to upend the constitution in order to avoid going to prison. This is why I can't see him listening to Biden about removing his fellow crazies, he is beholden to them . I could possibly see a move being made against Bibi by others if America twists the arm of the Israeli Government, but Biden doesn't have the bottle to do so, especially given he trying to court the swing vote for the next election

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490345#Comment_121490345

Israel itself, right to the top, to Netanyahu, engages in anti-Semitic narratives it thinks will benefit them. These narratives are widely spread by Israel's online support.

It is a concerted strategy.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-12-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489969#Comment_121489969

Are they expecting dead Palestinians to rise up in some sort of Hamas zombie apocalypse?

odyssey06 · 13-12-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490223#Comment_121490223

There have been anti-semitic slurs and tropes bandied about against Israel and Jews in general over the thread.

That is "Genuine anti-semitism" - to your words.

Care to find the posts where you challenged these?

But the one that you use to make a stand against is conflating the interest of Jews and Israel as a state?

So without those posts...

"Principle free position"? That is your phrasing - and seems a perfect description of your post.

Your claims have no credibility.

Sweet.Science · 13-12-2023 1:20pm

Havent paid attention in a few weeks

Whats the latest ?

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 1:20pm

Here's an example of anti-Semitism Israel won't object to.

This video is genuinely fcuking mental. Trump’s dinner buddy Nick Fuentes calls for the execution of “the occult element among the high levels of society”. Which means “the Jews”, as Fuentes makes very clear.

But you won’t hear total fraud Elise Stefanik of the House Republican party criticising this guy, because he’s a major opinion former in right-wing America, and her ally.

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1734318948454375596

blanch152 · 13-12-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490223#Comment_121490223

That is a nonsensical position. If someone points out that the anti-Israeli position being adopted by another person/poster is just a screen for that poster/person's anti-Semitism, that doesn't make the person pointing that out an anti-Semite.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490420#Comment_121490420

State what you believe is anti-Semitic and what is not, and why.

You believe the claim that conflating all Jews as a group with Israel is NOT anti-Semitic.

Here's why it is.

It holds that Jews are automatically "disloyal" to their country of origin, it holds that all Jews are responsible for the actions and crimes of the state of Israel (they are not), it turns Jewish individuals, schools, places of worship or businesses into "legitimate targets" for protest or intimidation in response to Israel's crimes because it conflates these things with Israel (when they are absolutely not Israel), and it promotes crazy ideas of a "Jewish world conspiracy".

Israel is being deeply irresponsible and engaging in prima facie anti-Semitism when it claims that opposition to Israel's crimes is an attack on all Jews worldwide.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490455#Comment_121490455

The person in question has not pointed out any anti-Semitism and they themselves are pushing an anti-Semitic trope. I have thoroughly explained why the trope that poster is pushing is anti-Semitic.

Meanwhile you are resorting to throwing around accusations of anti-Semitism in a similar ludicrous manner to how QAnon supporters throw around the slur "paedophile" with absolutely zero to back it up.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 2:06pm

This is straight up racism. Targeted for wearing a scarf. Who is being intimidated on US college campuses again?

https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status/1734759140042441156

And may I remind people of this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/03/vermont-one-of-three-palestinian-american-students-shot-paralyzed

One of the three college students of Palestinian descent who were shot in Vermont last month is paralyzed from the chest down after a bullet lodged in his spine, the student’s family said.

Hisham Awartani, a 20-year-old student at Brown University who grew up in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, was walking with two friends near the University of Vermont campus in Burlington on 25 November when, police say, 48-year-old Jason Eaton shot them with a handgun in a suspected hate crime. Eaton has pleaded not guilty.

Igotadose · 13-12-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489002#Comment_121489002

Such a deep, deep hole. "Deep State Bellingcat" from a tweet by the widely discredited journalist Greenwald.

Deep state. Have more Trumpflakes with your breakfast.

brickster69 · 13-12-2023 2:10pm

Reports of an execution style massacre at an UNRWA school where peoplewere seeking refuge

https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/1734921717653381176

Strazdas · 13-12-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490607#Comment_121490607

All we ever seem to hear about in the media is 'anti-Semitism' but I would suggest Islamophobia is a much, much bigger problem in Europe and the US. Jewish people are often middle class and well educated in real life, but Muslims are depicted as refugees, terrorists, rapists, spongers, uneducated, a threat to security, misogynistic etc.

odyssey06 · 13-12-2023 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490475#Comment_121490475

I can tell when someone is shouting "anti-Semitic" purely as a point scoring exercise and your post is a perfect example of it, given you were asked and were unable to find posts where you challenged hostile examples of anti-semitic slurs directed against Jews on this thread. The anti-semitic slurs directed against Jews, using anti Jewish tropes. They weren't nuanced enough to target "Israelis" nor when death cults like Hamas chant for deaths it is to The Jews not to The Israelis.

It is obvious that a significant amount of the hostility towards Israel is based on anti-semitic foundations. That does not mean criticising Israel necessarily is anti-Semitic. But it is a significant factor and it is has manifested on this thread also.

So your pretence of caring about anti-Semitism is revealed to be hollow and without foundation, this is just a angle of attack to point score against Israel.

There is obviously a connection between Israel and Jews, given it is the homeland of such a significant number of the Jewish population and many Jews not living in Israel feel an attachment to it. It is not anti-semitic to point this out.

Snooker Loopy · 13-12-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490791#Comment_121490791

This post is a classic example of shouting. You were asked to point out what I have said is anti-Semitic and why. You have refused to do so, but you keep shouting anyway.

This is QAnon level "shout paedophile at them" stuff.

You also believe it's legitimate to conflate Jews with Israel. That is YOYU perpetuating actual anti-Semitism. I laid out specifically why this is so in my previous reply to you.

Here it is again:

The myth that Jews = Israel holds that non-Israeli Jews are automatically "disloyal" to their country of origin, it holds that all Jews are responsible for the actions and crimes of the state of Israel (they are not), it turns Jewish individuals, schools, places of worship or businesses into "legitimate targets" for protest or intimidation in response to Israel's crimes because it conflates these things with Israel (when they are absolutely not Israel), and it promotes crazy ideas of a "Jewish world conspiracy".

So by perpetuating the myth that Jews = Israel, it is the likes of YOU and the other poster SeanW - as well as Israel itself who promotes this anti-Semitic myth - who are saying that Jewish individuals, Jewish schools, Jewish places of worship, Jewish businesses etc. that these are Israeli, and thus you are deeming them legitimate targets for political protest.

But they are NOT legitimate targets for protest, intimidation or anything else, for the bleedin' obvious reason that a Jewish school or place of worship or business does NOT equal Israeli.

Ulixes · 13-12-2023 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490409#Comment_121490409

Israel is not a sentient entity. Are you therefore referring to the Israeli Government or every do you include Israeli?

Do you just include all Jewish Israelis or do you include the Arab Israelis? What about those of mixed heritage?

Words matter and precision of language matters.

Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Comments