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No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭DBK1




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    I had an interesting chat last night, The group that I socialise with would have nearly 1600 acres , two of the women; who are widows, have 600 acres each and none of us have anyone to farm on, and we're the only ones that don't have family, it makes you think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Any harm to enquire what enterprises the 2 widows have been in? Around here tillage and dairy farms are finding successors no problem, but drystock farms are struggling badly with succession.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    drystock and tillage in both cases, both had similar histories, all the partners in both marriages had 300 acres each,

    One of the husbands once remarked 40 years ago that for the farms to survive , his daughter would have to marry a son from the other farm.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Would they not sell up altogether?

    Land is making good money and if there’s none of their children to take it over then it’ll probably be sold as soon as their time comes anyway so why not sell now and enjoy some of the money themselves.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Anyone here go thru succession planning in recent years?

    Myself and my mother were in with the accountant this morning and the main thing I took from the chat was that their fee is €4,000 for developing the plan.

    Is that ball-park?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,554 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    When you look at farm investment nany choose to invest in Machinery or efficiency and will overinvest within there own farm often. While I always accept that you need to invest, have fencing sheds and other faculties I see a lot of investment justvto avoid paying tax.

    People that buy land within a farming setup will often repeat the trick 2-3 time or more in there lifetime. You will see other with substantial holdings that will never buy another acre of land

    Even at an auction I always bet on the lad that had been through the experience before rather than a lad with no experience of how you go about it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,554 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think all of yee had too much to drink.

    The deceased husband who made the remark about 600 X2 acres to make a living had unrealistic expectations. Over the last 50 years a 600 acre farm with no land purchase debt even if you had a substantial inheritance cost( although often this was sidelined by not transferring the land) was capable at its peak of delivering 6-10 times the average industrial wage in real terms.

    Even at present 600 acres rented at 200/ acre would give an income of 120k or about 2.5 time the average industrial wage. Longterm the farm payment would be minimum 60k and minimum 120k if drawn by a husband and wife as two separate farming entities.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭kk.man


    That is a very true statement...loads of examples of it near me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,198 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    he has put millions towards the cancer unit in uhl to mention just 1, at least he knows where the money is being used



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Fair enough, but this gaa move is pure populist bullsh1t to buy the JP is a great man legacy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,773 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Ah no. That's very unfair. I heard too that his brother has put millions into the underage structure in Limerick. He's a very wealthy guy and knows how to get the best return for his money. He may not benefit from this investment but thousands of kids certainly will.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,497 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    My father read in the paper that JP at fourteen years of age went to a bookmaker during the Cheltanham race week with 20k to put a bet on a horse. The bookmaker had to phone up his father at home in Ireland before he'd take the bet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,142 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    It's all part leased or share farmed in both cases at the moment, one widows family member tried to farm it but got fed up of it. It was all well farmed when both fathers were alive, it was a big shock. both were 50 - 60



  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭trg


    Hey there, I'm looking at putting the old house and farm electricity bill onto my own dwelling house just to have the one bill.

    Anyone have any idea how to do this? I'm struggling to figure it out but I doubt it's difficult.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Maybe Patsy, but I just take a very cynical view of tax exiles then coming home to a heros welcome with charitable donations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Its his money to give away, he earned it and has done nothing illegal. Not sure what to be cynical of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭Grueller


    The fact that the elites get to pick and choose where they pay tax. You and I don't have the resources to indulge in that luxury. If these people paid their taxes here it would be multiples of this and might do more good than the few headline donations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 575 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Everyone try’s to pay as little tax as legally possible, if you were at his level you’d be doing the same too.

    As other posters have said he knows where his donations go and fair play to him for it he’s helped an awful lot of people across the country. You can’t guarantee where your tax is going to be spent by the government so the argument it would be for the betterment of Ireland is negligible.

    Ireland operated at a surplus of €12 billion last year and somehow or country is no better off in general.

    More power to JP he’ll be missed when he’s gone around the country.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,265 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I told this story before on F&F.

    During the mid 90's I was attending a breed society meeting at a hotel in Kildare. When the meeting was over some of us went into the bar/restaurant for a bite of dinner before we drove home. A group of women came into the bar selling blocks for a IR£1.00 each to help build (from memory) a day care centre for people with special needs. The bar had a good few people eating in it including a group of four or five men in one corner all wearing suits. One of the men wrote a cheque for IR£12,000 which was the winnings that his horse had won earlier that day. The man was JP McManus. I will always remember the joy on those women's faces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭Packrat


    No, they'd piss it up against the wall like a lot of what you and I give them. Fxck them, and more power to him if he can avoid giving them more to waste.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Odelay


    But there are plenty that have that option and the vast majority aren't "elites". Take those working teaching or nursing in Dubai. I wouldn't consider a teacher or nurse working tax free in Dubai as being an elite? It is a choice. The man moved somewhere that tax is more efficient. He can only spend a limited number of days in his home country, his choice. Government cannot force emigrants to pay tax here. Who the heck pays extra tax they don't have to pay?

    If it was royalty using taxpayers money I'd have a different opinion, but someone creating their own wealth and handing out millions, fair play to them I say.

    Post edited by Odelay on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Fair play to him if I was him I'd think about being an exile. Being an exile is no joke either revenue do follow up on it as I know someone who is one.

    The county boards must be delighted with the funds and I hope they spend it wisely not moving cash around to support a vanity stadium.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Teachers and nurses in Dubai are hardly in the same category as those who pay lobbyists to influence TDs and civil servants into making laws and loopholes that help them become multi-millionaires.

    JP McManus doesn’t have to give his money away but he does and that’ll benefit thousands of people. He’s to be commended for that.

    But let’s not put a halo over his head just yet.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭massey 265


    Thanks 4 that clarification.I agree completely re those that have purchasing experience.Have purchased a few small pieces of land over last 30 years and dealt with 4 different auctioneers both at auction and private treaty and surly its a "learned experience"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭Grueller


    That is put far more eloquently than I could and is exactly my thoughts on it.

    I am actually heavily involved in my local GAA club ( on the executive for the last 12 years and have filled all roles there) and am not stupid enough to turn down the money and I can see the hypocrisy in my position, but ai also see the irony in his.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,554 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    People who have not been involved in auctions before are always nervous about trying to get a bid in at there limit. When they get within about 10% of there limit they tend to hesitate and either slow there bidding or wait for the auctioneer to reduce the bids.

    An ould lads said to me years ago bid hard and hope you succeed on the ''nod of the hammer''.

    He explained it that if you are up against a bidder that has been there before he virtually know your limit when you do that and may bid extra to knock you off at your limit even though its slightly above his limit.

    By bidding hard you might win or lose on the bid slighy below your limit as you hit his or his next bid will exceed his

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Same here - I got dragged back into the local GAA club after years away. Our chairman is doing serious work and whatever about the mandarins in Croke Park, the GAA clubs do a lot for youngsters in the community. They’ll benefit from JP’s money and I’d take him over his peers any day - he spends hard cash to get his good PR rather than just buying a fancy lunch for a few journalists and inviting them onto his yacht for an hour.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,002 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Fair play to JP. That money will most likely keep the generator running in our club all winter. I'm heavily involved in my home club and tbh it's a slog to keep the show on the road. We're a rural club playing senior football and a b&c team as well as underage. Great numbers as the appetite for football is ferocious but there's a lot of work done behind the scenes to keep facilities etc in order.

    The way he stipulated the money is spent means its guaranteed to go to grass roots rather than getting wasted at county board level. A true gael 👏



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