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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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    #24452
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494585#Comment_121494585

    It appears so, most of Gaza will be a buffer zone so it just leaves a security operation in Judea and Samaria.


    It certainly is not ideal but the reality on the ground dictates a response,

    Not what we wish.



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    #24453
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    Not only are Israeli journalists (outside of the honourable exception of Haaretz) not doing their job, Israel is blocking foreign journalists from accessing Gaza and murdering Palestinian journalists by the truckload.

    Israel has dictated that the genocide will not be televised.

    'Israelis Don't See Images From Gaza Because Our Journalists Are Not Doing Their Job'

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/podcasts/2023-12-13/ty-article-podcast/israelis-dont-see-images-from-gaza-because-our-journalists-are-not-doing-their-job/0000018c-5e34-de43-affd-fe36d3a70000


    "The fact that Israeli audiences don't see images from Gaza means that journalists are not doing their jobs," she says. "They have to show the images. Hebrew-speaking Israelis watching television news are not exposed at all to what's going on in Gaza. We don't see the atrocities, the rubble, the destruction and the humanitarian crisis. The world sees something completely different."

    ------

    "The fact is that people outside of Israel are seeing a completely different picture of reality. If we don't see what they are seeing, we won't be able to understand the growing sentiment against us. The majority of people know what happened, they know there was a massacre, they understand Israel went through something devastating. The fact that we Israelis are living in a completely different dimension doesn't work to our advantage. We need to deal with it."



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    #24454
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Palmach


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494647#Comment_121494647

    BDS is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel.



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    #24455
    chewed
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭chewed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494734#Comment_121494734

    And where does is state that? I can't find it on the BDS website.



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    #24456
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494734#Comment_121494734

    Israel is a genocidal, apartheid state. Why should we want to perpetuate the existence of a genocidal, apartheid state?

    Why should should we not want to obliterate the existence of a genocidal, apartheid state in the same way that the obliteration of apartheid South Africa was considered a completely legitimate and worthy objective?



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    #24457
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,757 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494650#Comment_121494650

    If this continues unchecked, people that thought the cost of living crisis was bad might be in for a rude awakening. This has the potential to have major repercussions for the global economy.



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    #24458
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    The reality:

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1735206343466692937




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    #24459
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494561#Comment_121494561

    Absolutely. The only viable option is a two state solution. The problem is that neither side wants that but the alternative is intolerable. Difficult circle to square.



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    #24460
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494915#Comment_121494915

    Given that the two sides absolutely hate each other and want nothing to do with each other, it's near impossible to see how a 'one state' solution could ever see peace in the region. It's like Northern Ireland or the former Yugoslavia with bells on.



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    #24461
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,053 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494634#Comment_121494634

    So that is final proof you are utterly unable to stand over what you posted when challenged.

    The question about Gallant's comments was whether it described Hamas terrorists or all Palestinians. You know this.

    So you have to dredge up a post from weeks back AND misrepresent what was said. Desperate stuff.

    So that is a blatant misrepresentation of what I posted and it is obvious you have no credible argument when you can only engage in these kind of responses.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #24462
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494602#Comment_121494602

    The UK and France, and later the Americans, for various reasons from access to India, to colonialism, to hubris and then Oil, did all they could to stymie the development of political Islam in general, and Pan-Arab Nationalism in particular, from the turn of the last Century onwards. Much of the Middle Easts modern problems can be traced back to that period. Therefore it paints an inaccurate picture to ignore that major influence.


    I agree that Islam is, at its core, imperialistic. It is a core tenant of Islam to spread the word, by the sword if necessary. When the whole world is converted then it will be at peace. It is in that context that it is referred to as the religion of peace. It is incompatible with liberal democracy and the values to espouses. Fundamentalist Christianity (and Judaism) is also incompatible with liberal democracy but thankfully for the most part we've jettisoned all that nonsense.



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    #24463
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,276 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494784#Comment_121494784

    So now the true colours are coming out. Israel has a right to exist. You can't destroy it and and take away what the majority of Jews see as a necessary safe place, even the ones you think are the "good" ones. If there was only one Muslim state in the world and people wanted it "obliterated" what would you think that was based on?



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    #24464
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,912 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494784#Comment_121494784

    South Africa wasn't 'obliterated' though. It still exists, just with a different political and social structure. There was a peaceful handover of power too.

    If be very careful with your use of the word 'obliterate' here in relation to Israel as a state. What you're calling for and what happened on South Africa are not the same.



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    #24465
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495006#Comment_121495006

    No state in the world has a right to exist. This is a different thing entirely to saying that states exist or recognising that they exist. No state exists in an inherent state of nature.

    Should the Aboriginal Australians or the native Americans say that the modern day states of Australia and the USA have a right to exist? That would be to say that their genocide by white colonial settlers was legitimate. That white colonial peoples had an inherent right to genocide them and colonise them.

    Ireland has no inherent right to exist as a state. Northern Ireland has no inherent right to exist as a state. Belgium doesn't. Yugoslavia didn't. The Soviet Union didn't.

    What people have an inherent right to is to be treated with dignity, to not have to live under the jackboot of a murderous occupier.

    Why should Palestinians say Israel has a right to exist? That would be to say that their ethnic cleansing and genocidal suffering was legitimate, that the Jewish settlers had a right to inflict it on them.

    It was not legitimate. It was a monstrous evil.

    Israel has never admitted that it was created by a monstrous evil and has continued to inflict monstrous evil on an indigenous people it considers to be sub-human.

    Post edited by Snooker Loopy on


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    #24466
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494784#Comment_121494784

    What an appalling post.

    You sound like the Crusaders who spent some time in the region

    Would you let the 1.6 million Arabs out first or would it be a "Kill them all and let God sort them out" scenario? Supposedly a Crusader phrase, though said with reference to the Christians mixed with the Cathars somewhere in France, I can't remember the details, not the Muslims).

    My view is that I'd like to see a change in government in Israel and real steps to a two state solution put in place. Mass murder and "obliteration" are less desirable options.



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    #24467
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,276 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495060#Comment_121495060

    Right so say Israel is "obliterated" like you want, what do you suggest happens to the Jews who live there? It's not like they can just go to other countries in the region, they've already been expelled from most of those. Bear in mind that most of them aren't "white" and European like you seem to think, they are from the region. You're pretty much calling for ethnic cleansing but they do have a right to be there despite what you say



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    #24468
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495040#Comment_121495040

    Apartheid South Africa was obliterated. The United Kingdom in its then form was obliterated when the Irish Free State was formed. The Soviet Union was obliterated. Yugoslavia was obliterated. Czechoslovakia was obliterated. All these places ceased to exist as states in their then form.

    Israel is seeking the obliteration of Gaza and Palestine, both in their basic form as contiguous entities with borders, ie. that they will cease to exist as lines on a map, and in the more literal sense of the physical obliteration of the lives of its people and its landscape, and we have several posters here cheerleading this to the high heavens.



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    #24469
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495091#Comment_121495091

    You are the person who is supporting the same sort of murderous crimes that were perpetrated in the Crusades, not me.

    It's clear you have zero moral compass and have descended into a vicious barbarism in your tiny little mind.



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    #24470
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495107#Comment_121495107

    They can stay and help to build a new state or states. What do you suppose happens to the Palestinians now, you know, given that Israel is physically obliterating them?

    What should the Palestinians do to prevent the physical obliteration of their bodies and lives? Should they just politely accept it as you seem to want?



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    #24471
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495204#Comment_121495204

    Again with the childish Trumpian nonsensical deflection.



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    #24472
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    obliterated; obliterating. : to remove or destroy completely : wipe out.

    transitive verb

    1

    a

    : to remove utterly from recognition or memory

    … a successful love crowned all other successes and obliterated all other failures.

    —J. W. Krutch

    b

    : to remove from existence : destroy utterly all trace, indication, or significance of

    The tide eventually obliterated all evidence of our sandcastles.


    There's a bit if backtracking going on...



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    #24473
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495107#Comment_121495107

    To obliterate means to wipe out. With slips like that certain posters could be an ambassador to the UK ;)



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    #24474
    Ulixes
    Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495258#Comment_121495258

    And that my friend is a textbook case of Gaslighting.


    ... you feel sorry for me as an individual. Do you think I'm also a collective?

    It seems You don't agree with the idea that people you disagree with can also be ethical or moral people. That's not very conducive to thinks like democracy and like, not being tyrannical. It's very Donald Trump though. He doesn't like Steve Bannon anymore. Is that why it was an insult to say I was like him?



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    #24475
    TokTik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭TokTik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495262#Comment_121495262

    Apartheid should be obliterated. It was obliterated in SA without the state being removed from existence.

    It’s telling that the Zionist supporters are reduced to linguistic gymnastics as their only argument.



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    #24476
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Fair play to the Taoiseach. It would be hard to disagree with a word of this:

    "The European Union has “lost credibility” with young people and around the world due to its inability to take a stronger stance on the situation in Gaza, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

    “I’m a huge believer in the European Union,” Mr Varadkar said on arrival to a crunch summit of EU leaders in Brussels. “But our inability to take a stronger and clearer position on the situation in Gaza, I think has undermined our credibility.”

    The Taoiseach said he would tell fellow EU leaders at the summit that the union’s image had been damaged due to its inability to take a stronger and more united position on Israel and Palestine.

    “We’ve lost credibility with the Global South, which actually is most of the world, because what is perceived to be double standards. And there’s some truth in that, quite frankly,” he told reporters."

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/12/14/eu-summit-european-union-has-lost-credibility-due-to-stance-on-gaza-varadkar-says/




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    #24477
    Snooker Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495366#Comment_121495366

    Von der Leyen has got to go. The people tasked with preserving democracy and decency in the world are simply not serious about it and she is one of the worst, her capitulation to the far right piss takers of Hungary yesterday just the latest example.



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    #24478
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495127#Comment_121495127

    You are obliterating all around you today.



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    #24479
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495404#Comment_121495404

    Are you a fan of democracy now, a welcome development but your sincerity will be questioned for a good bit to come by less generous spirits than myself.



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    #24480
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,276 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495226#Comment_121495226

    That sounds lovely but we all know what would happen to Jews if they stay. The same thing that's happened to them all around the Middle East. Hamas don't just want a free Palestine, they (and many of their neighbors in other countries) want to murder all the Jews. They literally say this. Should Jews just politely accept it as you seem to want?



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    #24481
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,826 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I feel like there are two debates happening on this same thread simultaneously.

    One is about the current actions of the government/military of Israel, and the other concerns the right of Israel (and by extension the 6.9-7.4 million Jews who live there) to exist. Strangely, I've been called an anti-Semite for daring to suggest that in my view, the answer to the latter question is that they do.

    I've been called many things 😁 but that was a new one for me.



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