Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

But that means they are proposing a 'maximum security' solution of Palestine never being an independent state and having to accept this permanent settlement practically at gunpoint and being under siege.

The corruption deeply damaged the PLO but it was also part of a broader trend that started in the 1920s towards a return to proper islam and against non Islamic beliefs, which many in the Islamic world felt was why Allah had ended the caliphate.

Islamic thought, Arabic thought and culture was designed by and for imperialism is a way that Europeans can't understand, that only a very societies globally do.

The PLO were led by these influenced by European ideas and examples, even if they were perfectly honest, Islamic movements were growing all over the Islamic world, still an ongoing trend. There was no replacement generation in the PLO, from the 80s on.

I have no interest in going and back forth with a poster who doubled down on defending Gallant's comment describing Palestinians as animals. My point was clear even the US,Israel's staunchest ally, thinks the IDF have been reckless and not done near enough to safeguard civilians. You can continue to defend them and hold them to a lower bar than you would any other country engaging in the same tactics. I am done engaging with such rank hypocrisy. Good day to you sir.

Going by her tweets the secret service wouldn't let her within a mile of Biden, Bernie Sanders or Bill Clinton.

It appears so, most of Gaza will be a buffer zone so it just leaves a security operation in Judea and Samaria.

It certainly is not ideal but the reality on the ground dictates a response,

Not what we wish.

BDS is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel.

Given that the two sides absolutely hate each other and want nothing to do with each other, it's near impossible to see how a 'one state' solution could ever see peace in the region. It's like Northern Ireland or the former Yugoslavia with bells on.

The UK and France, and later the Americans, for various reasons from access to India, to colonialism, to hubris and then Oil, did all they could to stymie the development of political Islam in general, and Pan-Arab Nationalism in particular, from the turn of the last Century onwards. Much of the Middle Easts modern problems can be traced back to that period. Therefore it paints an inaccurate picture to ignore that major influence.

I agree that Islam is, at its core, imperialistic. It is a core tenant of Islam to spread the word, by the sword if necessary. When the whole world is converted then it will be at peace. It is in that context that it is referred to as the religion of peace. It is incompatible with liberal democracy and the values to espouses. Fundamentalist Christianity (and Judaism) is also incompatible with liberal democracy but thankfully for the most part we've jettisoned all that nonsense.

South Africa wasn't 'obliterated' though. It still exists, just with a different political and social structure. There was a peaceful handover of power too.

If be very careful with your use of the word 'obliterate' here in relation to Israel as a state. What you're calling for and what happened on South Africa are not the same.

What an appalling post.

You sound like the Crusaders who spent some time in the region

Would you let the 1.6 million Arabs out first or would it be a "Kill them all and let God sort them out" scenario? Supposedly a Crusader phrase, though said with reference to the Christians mixed with the Cathars somewhere in France, I can't remember the details, not the Muslims).

My view is that I'd like to see a change in government in Israel and real steps to a two state solution put in place. Mass murder and "obliteration" are less desirable options.