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Dispute with second hand car dealer over consumer rights

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  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Whatwicklow


    Loop-de-loop



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,298 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You literally did above.

    Most people understand that a warranty is an additional insurance that some manufacturers and sellers provide for…

    Except, ironically, that’s not want warranty means.

    They’re multiple types of warranty. You are getting mixed up with an extended warranty. Which is an additional over and above level of cover provided for a fee. Nobody mentioned that.

    All warranties are provided for by some laws. A contract, property law, consumer law, etc. If a seller is legally obliged to warrant that the goods he sells are fit for purpose, and will be replace if defective. That is a warranty, whether it provided for under consumer law or some other contract is irrelevant. The exact terms of the warranty will be dictated by the instrument that creates it.

    And regardless of the precise meaning. It was clear you were talking about consumer law, it was also clear I was aware of that as I asked you where part if consumer law you were referring to. Trying (and failing) to play semantics instead of answering a simple question does not exactly build credibility.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Theres a a couple of issues here that I think need to be answered.

    OP - Firstly why did you buy the car without a warranty - a registered dealer is obliged to sell a used car to a member of the public with warranty. Theres no way around that - its a legal requirement to sell a used car with warranty if you are a registered dealer.

    Did you buy the car as a "trade" sale by any chance? Because if you did then you are out of luck - trade sales are between traders and dont have to include warranty...I used to get people coming in to try and buy "trade" cars for themselves even though they werent in the trade hoping to get a few hundred / thousand off the price. We would never sell to these people for exactly the reasons being brought up in this thread.

    Did you sign the order form that says you have no warranty?

    Have you an invoice that says you have no warranty?

    It all sounds a bit off to me.

    Either the dealer is dodgy as **** or theres something youre not telling us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,446 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    How can I misunderstand the facts when you hadn't given any, that was the first time you mentioned a solenoid?

    And of course you immediately launch yet again into repeating the consumer rights spiel, as if we didn't hear it the first ten times.

    Here is a fact you would be better off trying to find out. Why does a faulty solenoid require a full gearbox replacement?

    By the way, the people whose job it is to know consumer laws inside out, aren't working in a citizen advice helpline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    quarterwits never win…



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  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Designator


    Because he was asking for 1500 extra for 3 months warranty, and as I stated already I know myself that Im entitled to 3 months warranty legally anyway whether he says I have it or not. So I didnt fancy paying an extra 1500 for something I would have been entitled to anyway .



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Where is this entitlement to the warranty you speak of? You have mentioned it many times, but i haven’t seen the link yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭PGE1970


    OP, we are a week into this thread. Have you made any progress? Have you costed the repair and presented it to the vendor?

    I'm interested to see how this pans out!



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    You didnt answer my questions - did you sign an order sheet or have an invoice that says you have no warranty.

    Did you but the car "trade"?

    Id also like to see the legislation you are referring to?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭JVince


    Where on earth does it say a motor dealer HAS to sell a used car with a "warranty".

    Stop with the blatant misinformation.

    A used car needs to be drivable and you must disclose any pertinent information.

    If something goes wrong in a reasonable timeframe or usage, then the issue should be repaired.

    Unfortunately, 5,000 km is unlikely to be seen as being within reasonable time for a solenoid fault.

    But there absolutely is not some legal used car warranty that exists in any form whatsoever



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Is 12 years a reasonable timeframe for a solenoid fault?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Youre being delusional - there is absolutely nothing that legally gives you three months warranty!!!

    As I said earlier, you had a conversation with consumer affairs and either you were given incorrect information or you failed to understand what you were told - I know which one of the two I believe!



  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Whatwicklow


    I bought an audi Allroad about two years ago from a small dealer who on the day of sale marked the invoive as "sold as seen" naively, I proceeded and bought the car but I informed him that if there was a problem with with the car id be back.

    Sure enough, two days later, gearbox malfunction comes up on the dash.


    Phone call, returned car. Full refund. Has it been more than a week I imagine I would have struggled to get a quick successful result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,996 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    I think at this stage we are all curious to know how this story ends.... or at least the latest developments


    (thats if there was ever a car, car dealer and buyer in the first place)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭mrslancaster



    Agree, scenarios like the OP's are of interest to many consumers - I'd like to know if the OP's goods are covered by consumer legislation. Posters with legal expertise have more knowledge than 'joe public' but plenty of people look for information from government websites and state agencies and they seem to say that second hand goods are covered under laws passed in Nov22. Hopefully the OP will update the thread about the outcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    You are not entitled to "3 months warranty legally"... the entitlements you have under consumer law are different to the thing they were trying to sell you. You have rights, yes. However for example your precious consumer law states that if the seller can demonstrate the problem wasn't there when they sold it, then you are likely to be out of luck. 5000km suggests the problem may not have been there. And before you say "a car should last more than 5km" you bought a 120km car. There is an expectation that 120km cars will have problems, maybe not within 5km of course, but you haven't got a slam dunk case.


    As advised above, try and resolve with the dealer amicably. If you don't, your case is MASSIVELY weakened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I’m at a bit of a loss as to why the OP is posting here at all? If he is so sure of his ground he should just take a case against the dealer. It is extremely unlikely that he is going to get the car repaired through the good nature of the seller who doubtless feels that the OP is trying to pull a fast one given that the car was specifically sold without warranty and has since covered 5000 kms. Take the case and report back to us OP - got to be worth a punt!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭PGE1970


    Any update OP?

    Hopefully, you got sorted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Designator


    Couldn’t get a hold of the dealer since, ignoring my texts and calls and now it appears he’s ceased trading completely . Strange turn of events



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Well sure you bought at cut price without warranty and ended up with no warranty so no loss in the end.





  • so got no where with all those consumer rights? Surprised there isn’t one that makes him answer the phone they’re so padded out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That's not good. Dealers ceasing trading one company and opening another immediately afterwards is common enough, and a way for them to unburden themselves of obligations to customerr, and monies owed.

    You may have certain statutory rights but they may be hard to enforce if they are no longer trading.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Designator


    Cut my losses and sold the car on to someone who’s going to repair it. Not worth the hassle now when he’s ceased trading trying to chase him down .



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Is this thread a wind up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,030 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Dodgy Dealers selling cars with no warranty then building up a list of problem cars. Then fold the company and set up again somewhere else is as old as the hills.

    Even if you buy a warranty most of these smaller used dealers won't honour it anyway.

    If I was buying a cheap car I'd consider it sold as seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,899 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Assuming it's not the OP should check what legal/business structure the dealer was trading under.







  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Designator


    Well I find it strange that he’s ceased trading because he actually lives beside the yard and garage he sells cars from, it’s all the one plot of land . So unexpected . He didn’t run for the hills like



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    He literally has ran for the hills if he has folded the business. Legally, speaking.



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