FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

Jinglejangle69 · 13-12-2023 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492934#Comment_121492934

Good panel discussions that just spouts out the usual far right nonsense when pressed on why Irish people can’t access housing and migrants can.

Far right Far right Far right….

BlueSkyDreams · 13-12-2023 11:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492168#Comment_121492168

What makes you think FFG not being in govt will increase housing output?

The 30k govt housing target was hit this year and 35k new homes are expected next year.

Thats not too shabby, though still not where we really should be.

Clo-Clo · 14-12-2023 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492898#Comment_121492898

Nobody said the solution to trolley crisis is fundraising

It’s mindless babbling now from you

US3 · 14-12-2023 6:20am

Can you show me where you got the 30k target being hit, even anywhere near 30k..

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493055#Comment_121493055

Right. Your thoughts on what INMO said in November 2019 re trolley crisis? They mention solution and fault.

Clo-Clo · 14-12-2023 9:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493434#Comment_121493434

Did I claim to know how to resolve the HSE? No i didnt

Do you know how to fix the HSE? Would love to hear

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493449#Comment_121493449

You're waffling. I am trying to establish who is to blame for decades of a trolley crisis. You won't even acknowledge it. The INMO know.

Clo-Clo · 14-12-2023 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493533#Comment_121493533

If you say so. Why are you trying to establish blame? Im sure it's partly the government, partly the HSE management and a load of other issues. I am not an expert on the HSE so I can't tell you exactly why.

I am more interested in how to resolve the problem and as I posted I think people will vote for parties who they think has a better plan. So the carry on of posting about people walking into ER etc is just nonsense. Also declaring that FFG supporters don't care is total nonsense.

Has the INMO released a plan on how to resolve the HSE?

blanch152 · 14-12-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493601#Comment_121493601

It is also partly the fault of the INMO and the other unions in the health service who operate restrictive practices within the health service that push up costs. It is also partly the doctors as well.

About the only stakeholder who are not in anyway at fault is the taxpayer.

Clo-Clo · 14-12-2023 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494197#Comment_121494197

If the resolution for the HSE was easy they would have done it by now, even if they done it by mistake.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121494197#Comment_121494197

QED. Blaming doctors and nurses. That didn't take long.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493601#Comment_121493601

Perhaps you should read what I post. The INMO have consistently said the solution is more capacity. More beds and staff. Very simple. More capacity.

Repeated below...read parts in bold

Just before Covid hit (November 2019), the INMO were crying out for help and issuing press releases showing the record numbers on trolleys.

This lack of capacity meant we had much longer lockdowns than many other EU countries. We had to lockdown because our hospitals were already at full capacity.

Trolley numbers for 2019 highest since records began, union claims | Independent.ie

Trolley numbers for 2019 highest since records began, union claims

Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation said 108,364 people have gone without beds in 2019 so far.

“We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

“No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 3:03pm

Blanch might comments on this rather than dismissing the moaning nurses. Again the root cause is capacity capacity capacity. More beds, more staff.

Instead we are 7 times over budget on the Children's Hospital.

Hospital bed occupancy for January and February exceeded best-practice limit, HSE says – The Irish Times

Hospital bed occupancy for January and February exceeded best-practice limit, HSE says

Use levels across country in first two months of year were 95.1%, much higher than during pandemic

Bed occupancy in the hospital system climbed higher than pre-Covid levels during the surge in respiratory infections earlier this year, new figures show.

According to data compiled by the Health Service Executive, the overall level of bed occupancy across the country in January and February of this year was 95.1 per cent – significantly in excess of what is considered best practice, and higher by far than during the pandemic.

The Irish Patients’ Association published research earlier this year suggesting almost 1,300 patients died over the winter as a result of delays in hospital admission. The availability of inpatient beds for admissions, and the associated issue of community beds or homecare supports for those awaiting issues, can slow the number of people transferring through emergeny departments, which in turn can impact outcomes.

The Economic and Social Research Institute said late last month that the health service was short of about 1,000 beds and needed an additional 300 new beds annually to keep up with demand.

------

We better start fund raising 😉

MegamanBoo · 14-12-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121492487#Comment_121492487

Because the state can entice workers to the construction industry with job security. I believe a big part of the reason people are reluctant to take on apprenticeships is because they (understandably) fear having to emigrate when another downturn happens.

Also the state can set money aside to build during economic downturns, so we don't have to catch up during boom times.

Further, the state can introduce much needed competition to the market by offering affordable homes at cost price.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495729#Comment_121495729

Yeah tradesmen are emigrating in a huge way at the moment. Plumbers, Electricians, Carpenters etc. One of the main reasons is they cannot afford to pay the exorbitant rents and they cannot afford to get on the property ladder. Crazy vicious cycle.

MegamanBoo · 14-12-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495953#Comment_121495953

When I finished school in the late nineties, you could pay basic rent and have a night out at the weekends on 1st year apprentice rates.

These days you'd have to be from a well to do background, so as to be subsidized to live as an apprentice. I believe they get hit with college fees for their placements now too.

This during a housing 'emergency'

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495953#Comment_121495953

And you think the State is going to pay them rates that will keep them here?

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495729#Comment_121495729

How much of a home do you think the developer profit margin is?

And who is going to be entitled to these homes at "cost price"?

And how affordable do you think homes at cost price are actually going to be?

And how likely do you think it is that the state will be able to set aside money during an economic downturn to fund labourers for building subsidised homes to sell at a cost price without massive popular pushback?

I don't agree with the basic premise as all jobs face difficulties during economic downturns and nor do I think most people look at their careers that long term.

I fundamentally agree with you that the housing market is broken, but I just can not agree that the problem is that we left it to private development when the massive, massive issue facing us is that not enough development is being approved to be done despite it being a wildly profitable endeavour. The State will face 100% the same problems private development faces and more on top as political interference in planning has had nothing but significant negative outcomes.

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496210#Comment_121496210

An apprentice electrician supposedly earns 30k€. apprentice carpenter 27k€.

You'll be living in a flatshare but you don't need to be from a "well to do background".

Though clearly there is scope to pay them a bit more if there was work for them, so maybe people should stop objecting to every single god damn development that anyone ever tries to build. (also the govt should fund ABP better and thankfully they are starting to do that, but it should never have been let fall into such a state).

MegamanBoo · 14-12-2023 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496318#Comment_121496318

1st year apprentice rates, 7e per hour. Then I believe they have to cough up a grand for college fees

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/hours-and-wages/sectoral%20employment%20orders/construction-sector/

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496341#Comment_121496341

Statutory minimum rates are not the same as what people are actually paid.

blackwhite · 14-12-2023 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496341#Comment_121496341

The minimum wage for most jobs in the country is currently €11.30 an hour - yet over 93% of workers are actually earn more than that.

You do understand that the legal minimum isn’t necessary what people actually get paid don’t you?

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496272#Comment_121496272

Not at all. I expect a state to be able to provide it's citizens with a working housing market. A normal housing market with affordable rents for all working people. The housing market is currently broken. Young people are saying that so much of their disposable income is gone on rent that they will never be able to afford a mortgage.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496318#Comment_121496318

The former deputy chairman of ABP was jailed in June for corruption in planning. He didn't lick it off the stones. Mahon and numerous RTE Investigates have exposed major corruption in planning and called for immediate reform. Why have FFG always stalled on it? 25 years after Mahon and they are being forced to act?

That Mahon Tribunal cost 300 million Euro.

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496624#Comment_121496624

HOW!?

What do you think is wrong with the housing market and how do you think it can be fixed?

For me, the absolutely smack in your face answer is that we are not building enough and that is because mid density housing in brownfield sites is still regularly being refused permission. We can not semi-D our way out of this mess. Any apartment block that isn't at least 7 stories that gets built is an absolute travesty.

And every single local politician in the land who fights against those buildings will be lauded by their constituents and get more votes.

Cluedo Monopoly · 14-12-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496710#Comment_121496710

Of course we are not building enough. FG stopped building altogether for years. I agree with high density construction. Do it. Change the planning laws to get it done. Fast track planning objection processing. Fcuk the NIMBY TDs. Whatever it takes, this is an emergency. Stop announcing big "Housing for All" plans with zero substance. Hit your targets. Try something to prevent our young tradesmen emigrating. Maybe tax incentives. Whatever. Resource ABP and planning offices asap. All we hear is "we are throwing "billyuns" at the problem" over and over and over. Treat it like the Covid emergency, they were well able to bring in statutory instruments to lock us all down.

Podge_irl · 14-12-2023 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496735#Comment_121496735

I don't disagree with much of this

FG stopped building altogether for years

I couldn't care less who builds. I think the private sector will happily build enough if we give them the scenario to do it

Change the planning laws to get it done

They are trying, albeit far too late. It is not easy

Fcuk the NIMBY TDs

100% agree. Councillors are the bigger problem in the grand scheme of the thing though. The biggest issue is that THIS IS ALL OF THEM. Almost every last politician without fail is a nimby, because the people who live there are their voters.

I agree with the gist of your point. But I also think that the population are filthy hypocrites who rally against any development as soon as it is near them. We can sit here and complain about politicians all day (and they are clearly not without blame), but the reality is that it is not an easy solution unless you are willing to piss people off. Which is difficult - though I would argue if done correctly can be beneficial in the long run. There is no incentive for DCC councillors to allow a high density residential block. The utter shitshow around the St Anne's development is the perfect example.

I have zero issue with someone thinking that a new government is needed. My problem is that we are going to be in the same place in 5 years because literally nothing any opposition party has put forth solves a single one of these problems. I am frustrated that we are incentivising the growth of this problem by our actions. There is no point in a 50 year old in Rathgar complaining that his kids can't live in the city when he also doesn't want a mid-rise building built nearby because it will bring transient occupants and destroy the character of the neighourhood.

Clo-Clo · 15-12-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495953#Comment_121495953

Yes everyone is emigrating according to you :-)

"property ladder" f**k we are back in 2005

https://youtu.be/Ekv4FEmXMPw?si=2o50FBKgYlOV5V45

blanch152 · 15-12-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495729#Comment_121495729

Your post is full of contradictions.

If, as you claim, the state can entice workers to the construction industry with job security, that means that building homes will cost more to the State, which means that they won't be affordable.

MegamanBoo · 15-12-2023 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498644#Comment_121498644

Not in the slightest. Job security doesn't necessarily cost more, it just means they will have work when the next downturn comes.

And even if it did cost more in terms of labour, labour only makes up a fraction of today's house prices.

When the government hands over 514k for a 2 bedroom social home, as it does now, how much of that 514k do you think is labour?

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/dublin-city-council-overpaid-by-40pc-to-build-social-homes-report-finds/42345317.html

FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

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Use levels across country in first two months of year were 95.1%, much higher than during pandemic