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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell



    New data released in its Impact Report show that Tesla vehicles with Autopilot engaged (mostly highway miles) had just 0.18 accidents per million miles driven, compared to the US vehicle average of 1.53 accidents per million miles.

    Teslas on non-highways with Full Self Driving (FSD) engaged had just 0.31 accidents per million miles representing an 80% reduction in accidents compared with the average vehicle. 

    Yeah so unsafe. Geez, you would cling to anything to make Musk look bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,896 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'll believe the independent NHTSA over report produced by Tesla to justify a Tesla product, thanks.

    Teslas are ugly, badly built cars that are about as reliable - drivetrain aside - as a 1980s British Leyland but without the wonky charm (and I suspect that if Tesla made ICE cars they'd be as reliable as 80s BL for drivetrain too). And now it turns out that their main 'feature' is exceptionally unsafe.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,429 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    wasn't there some (supposedly credible) reports that autopilot would disengage fractions of a second before impact, so tesla could claim 'autopilot was not active at time of impact'? or am i imagining that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    And now it turns out that their main 'feature' is exceptionally unsafe.

    Actually it turns out it's much more safer than human driving but hey, it's ugly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,896 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ...based on a report made by the company that has the validity of bogroll.

    The actual, independent experts have demanded a recall because its unsafe.

    Only the delusional will believe a company report over that.

    And yes, they're ugly. And badly built. Very, very badly built.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Wondering if that report excludes the Teslas that disengages autopilot pre crash. On top of that, independent reports rather than Tesla reports are relevant. Every company will make it self look fantastic in their studies that they make public...


    Forbes actually have a writeup on the quality of their reports. But I'm sure you did the necessary digging rather than going direct to Tesla, right?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,849 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Some people might have got killed, but we'll fix it in the next update.





    (for anyone who hasn't worked in IT, "we'll fix it in the next update" equates to "the cheque is in the post" or "I promise I won't **** in your *****")

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,849 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ugh well that's me definitely not joining Mastodon then.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,849 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The fact that he'd launch a half-arsed feature and call it "Autopilot", practically begging it to be misused, means that yes blood is on his hands.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,849 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's sad to see - no, actually a disgrace to see - a company like Tesla make all of the same mistakes which were made in the aviation world decades ago, and then add a few new ones on top.

    Autopilot - the real one, for planes - is fine within what it's meant to do but has to be monitored at all times. When the shít hits the fan it'll throw its robotic hands in the air, disconnect, and "let the pilot take over" - except having let the aircraft get into that state, the pilot clearly isn't up to speed with what the aircraft is doing so the chances of figuring out what is wrong and correcting it in time are slim.

    The parallels with Tesla's half-baked "Autopilot" are obvious, how many has Elon's marketing gimmick killed so far? Cnut.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • It seems many of Mastodon instances, including the main Irish one (Mastodon.ie) have blocked it entirely on the basis that they simply don't federate Meta.

    That being said, it looks like a large % of Irish Twitter are rapidly appearing on it. Advertisers are also very comfortable with Instagram in particular. It's likely Threads will soak up a lot of previous Twitter advertising spend that had abandoned X.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,702 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I wonder how many Boards accounts de Mammeh has?




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Do you really believe an in-house company report is gonna be more credible than an independent report of the same issue? On any issue at that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    There is no contradiction between these two reports. The safety record report shows that autopilot is generally safe, much more safer than human drivers, and the one calling for the recall highlights a safety concern which Tesla acknowledged and they will fix it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,388 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Except when the numbers are analysed that's not what it says at all or did you just choose to not read the forbes article posted above? It breaks down the data and clarifies many of the inaccuracies and bad data Tesla are trying to skew the narrative with

    Ill post a key passage you might be interested in

    users of Autopilot have a roughly similar number of crashes to those not using it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,702 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Except, as pointed out in the Forbes report, it does not actually show it's "much safer". It also doesn't differentiate between the kinds of roads it occurred on. It's pretty intentional that they don't dig into their statistics or make them public.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Others have pointed out, but there absolutely is a contradiction going on here.

    But it's all just bad press, and as always with news on Musk/Tesla on this thread it's entirely self inflicted. Good that they're fixing it, better still the wireless aspects allows it to be done remotely. But still. Drip drip drip.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You may have to read it more in depth to discover that the analysis which lead to that conclusion included his own bias and interpretation of other sources , and included things like fender benders, anything that resulted in a police and/or insurance report while not necessarily being a safety risk. All that while he himself acknowledges that he should not be doing that because Tesla buyers are a specific demographic with historically very low accident rate.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Has the in-house Tesla report been normalised to ensure the age profile and availability of safety features (not auto-pilot) are accounted for?

    The Tesla "install-base" is going to be a lot newer than the average for the overall car market.

    Newer cars are ALL safer than older cars , that's just a fact. A car with ABS/Traction control is safer than one without etc.

    Are Teslas safer than a comparable sample of the rest of the market when normalised for age and other factors?

    That's why internal reports are generally speaking to be taken with a massive helping of salt.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Let's get back to more useful topics: laughing at the Cybertruck.

    Here's one being rescued by a Ford, its wheels spinning and incapable of dealing with a simple incline. Now, to be fair: it's possible it has the wrong tyres cos you can get grippier ones, I presume that's what the "aired down" refers to here as an alternative to snow tyres. And no pickup ore recovery points? good lord. Does back up the idea that only dimwits might buy this truck.

    (Plus it also looks like the chancer was trying to cut down and take home their own Xmas tree, which is a bit cheeky to say the least)




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy



    Plenty of people have raised concerns about the accuracy and transparency of their reports. They could simply publicly release the data for analysis or independently verify it if they were confident in accuracy.

    I would say more than anything, that you tend to conclude Elon is wonderful in every way so tend to be happy with cherry picked data to support your conclusions. Also worth remembering that this is the same company that was happy to mislead in relation to accidents in the workplace so wouldn't be surprising for them to do it with their cars as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It's definitely the wrong tyres on the wrong car. A car that is supposed to be driven on that terrain would have its own winch.

    And how do you know he didn't pay for the tree or he's not on his land? Why do you assume he stole it, because that's what it would be, theft, not bein cheeky.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The car was rescued having gone off trail if you read the description; that's why it needed the tow in the first place; and given the Xmas tree on the roof & the myriad of similar trees in the background - it's a pretty safe 2 + 2 here.

    And the Cybertruck advertises itself as an all terrain vehicle. Your words are at odds with Tesla's own marketing here, dunno why you keep insisting the intention was never for rural locations. Like. Go to the website, the first promotional video has it navigating rivers, mountains and all sorts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,849 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Totally disingenuous of you on two counts.

    (1) Comparing Teslas driven on highways with other vehicles driven on all roads, including roads which are far less safe than highways.

    (2) Talking about Full Self Driving when what is under discussion is Autopilot. Musk chose to use the Autopilot name for a limited driver assistance feature, knowing that customers would think it was full self driving and misuse it in that way and that people would die as a result, but it sells more cars so why would a billionaire sociopath care?

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No one, absolutely no one, will take their shiny stainless steel pride and joy on a muddy snowy trail. Marketing **** and actual market study and targeting are completely different things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Just like nobody would be gullible enough to believe Autopilot is an actual.................

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I dunno what you want here: Tesla and Musk have promoted the Cybertruck as an all terrain, pickup truck vehicle since day 0. You say "market study" like this was some kind of considered project pursued with rigour. We know it's not and a vanity project of Musk's - a man you can hardly accuse of indulging in "marketing ****".

    You're right, nobody in their right mind would take this off road, yet: I just shared someone doing that and b. therein lies the entire folly of the whole enterprise. Musk has chased a project with no sane pathway to success. It is the Homer, rendered by someone who watched Blade Runner too many times.

    Wikipedia is as always, a neat summation of this personal project.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Come on, it can't be news to you that some products are sold associated with images that are never intended to be real. Like marketing material with healthy gorgeous middle class people eating from some fast food chain while we all know what kind of people they are actually targeting.

    They are selling an upper middle class middle age crisis town car, not an offroader.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,388 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Are you denying the reality of the video that was posted? Someone literally did what you are claiming nobody would do. Also like others have pointed out this has been marketed as all terrain from day one, blaming the customers because musk lied and they should have known better is kinda just proving everyone's point about him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Have you moved on from the fact that their safety stats are a misrepresentation and lack any transparency?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No one bar one or two, happy?

    Yes, I provided with some context and explanations, from here it's your job to read or disagree, I don't really care. It's not like you haven't made up your mind already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    No, you just claimed they were biased and rejected the criticisms. It's akin to the emissions scandals, companies will do their very best to misrepresent statistics. In this case, they heavily misrepresent and don't go through independent verification.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    So the "All-Terrain" Vehicle isn't really All-Terrain and "Auto-Pilot" isn't really Auto-Pilot and anyone that thinks they are only has themselves to blame, because no one in their right mind would listen to what they were told was possible and try to do it.

    Is that the angle now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Well Republicans in the US want to install a dictator/king figure, so yes, we live in the newspeak world now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    That has always been the angle in the automotive industry, that is the most unsafe and inefficient mean of travel and transportation.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Who had "Everybody does it" in todays Musk deflection bullsh!t bingo???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,729 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH



    Musk defenders every time they're caught out.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and Elon Musk says it's a duck ... you say it's actually a goose? This more big brain 4d chess?

    The Cybertruck was created to be a rival in the EV pickup market, the facts and commentary and there - though your dismissal it's gonna appeal to nobody except middle income idiots kinda unintentionally agrees with my assessment this is a collosal failure in waiting

    Lol Ok then. Like @Tony EH already snarked, the goalpost shifting is epic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭Harika


    I agree, the Cybertruck is not aimed as replacement for a craftsmen who use a Ford F150, its a lifestyle car. e.g. my neighbor who works in IT and needs a car to drive the kids 500 meter to school, dreams of getting a Ford Raptor. No idea what he wants to do with it.

    This is the targeted group for that thing. Affluent (upper) middle class people who are being sold to save the world by using a cybertruck.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That may be so, but therein lies the next problem: it's a fúcking hideous monstrosity where even opening the passenger door is a hassle. And even the smallest ding may require the entire single sheet of stainless steel being replaced. And that's leaving aside the quibble about if it's road legal, or the category of license that might be required. And even that's all assuming Tesla can deliver on the current demand (they can't).

    Those middle class people may snap them up out of FOMO, but the various flaws and hassles might see 2nd hand Cybertrucks flood the resale market as buyer's remorse kicks in. The EV market has become very competitive now, not least Ford to ref your namecheck.

    Tesla could have produced a "normal" pickup that appealed to that class of buyer properly and as a standout mainstream proposition: instead Musk demanded almost impossible and impractical engineering for his own amusement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It's all that, and also it will sell like hotcakes. You know it will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Its like the cult who are told the world will end tomorrow. When it doesn't happen, they actually double down in their belief, not question it.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,243 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Defend ridiculous truck, defend absurd tweets, defend terrible business decision, defending the questionable firing of thousands of workers after said bad business decision

    Almost as if there's a systematic pattern..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    You fotgot defending lifting the ban on accounts that share child porn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Contrary guy is contrary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭francois


    beyond tedious at this point, on the ignore list now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 867 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    Just saw this account on Threads. Mr "Free Speech Absolutist" can't ban this one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,996 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    He just wants to get some sightseeing in before he sees Lazio at home to Inter tomorrow.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A reminder as well that billionaire fúckers like Musk are the ones driving carbon into the atmosphere with his private jet while we break our backs trying to do our best. Musk could be leading the charge to save the planet, if he had the nerve to match his words, instead he wants to fúck off to Mars.



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