The new recycling system

their drinks product stock will ultimately cost them more than their non-collecting competitors

Their stock ultimately costs more anyway, last time I checked as the customer pays extra for the convenience factor. From Feb 1st there will be 15/25c added to the recyclable products at both the corner shop and the supermarket so if anything the % increase in the small shop will be lower

Fair points, I can see brewery's scrapping their canned beers next year because of this. Small wins and all that

The one minute is a generous time given to how long it would take to pick up a bag of empty cans and place them in the back of the delivery van... Can you explain where the significant cost comes from exactly?

The one minute is a generous time given to how long it would take to pick up a bag of empty cans and place them in the back of the delivery van... Can you explain where the significant cost comes from exactly?

The van somehow scans, sorts, processes payment and disposes of them?

Does he/she drive back with the paper receipt?

The most crazy thing about all this for me is that as far as I can see Re-turn is a private company, so if all the return machines break down immediately they get to pocket all the deposit money, absolutely no incentive from them to fix the machines!

Also is it clear who has actual control of increasing this levy? Is it going to go up every couple of years?

The delivery drivers counts the bottles and cans, why are we bothering with these smart machines that have multiple layers of identification so? 😂

How does he know which bottles and cans gets attributed to the 100s of deliveries he made that week?

Who processes them? How does the customer get credited.

You think this scheme is going to be a collective effort between grocery store and collection agents.

It isn't. The automatic installed machine is the end point for grocer when it comes to the trash aspect.

They are a private company, but they are a CLG - a Company Limited by Guarantee, not an LTD or PLC. That means they don't have any shareholders to pay dividends to. So any profits can't end up in anyone's pockets - they would stay within the company to be used to run the scheme.

Also, it should be noted that Re-turn don't supply or maintain the machines themselves at all. That's done by the six approved RVM suppliers. You can see them listed on this page https://re-turn.ie/retailer/ under the section "Reverse Vending Machine (RVM) Suppliers". Each of them will have maintenance agreements with the retail outlets.

The Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications is the one with the authority to increase or decrease the deposit amounts,for the following reasons.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2021/si/599/made/en/print

You would think it should be a government not for profit but its not, from their website:

"DRSI CLG, trading as Re-turn, is a new company limited by guarantee and was established by beverage producers and retailers in order to fulfil their obligations under the Separate Collection (Deposit Return Scheme) Regulations 2021."

Not for profit also doesn't mean you cant pay your staff 100k a year...

Considering the greens are harping on about how this was all their great idea yeah I thought it was a govt. initiative. Presumably if we see a 100% return rate on these containers the company will be effectively operating at a loss. Ironically it's hard not to justify a 100k a year salary if your figures are that good

I'll give you a hint, mobile trash collection, processing and sorting will come at a cost.

You mentioned significant cost though... Where's the significant cost in loading a box/bag of empties onto a van?

How would the delivery driver know? 😂

He could do something technical like count them

Why all the dumb questions?

Interesting concept, I'd imagine that the technology behind it hasn't been created yet. You'd also have the security issue of having a bin outside your front door with a few € worth of recyclables in it. Also wouldn't suit the person who buys a can of coke while out in town unless you ran it alongside the RVM's

The technology definitely exists. It would need RFID instead of a barcode, as RFID would be more suited to very quickly scanning a big jumble of containers tumbling into a truck. The issue there is that barcodes can just be printed as part of the regular product label printing process, but RFID tags are more complicated (and expensive) to implement. And yes, it would have to be in conjunction with RVMs in order to facilitate out-of-home consumption and various other cases.

Unfortunately, the scheme simply cannot be designed to suit 100% of the population. There will always be outliers. You happen to be one.

The 2L bottle will be 25c more expensive for you. Its either pay that or find a way to get to an RVM. The reduction in your use of plastic bottles for water is better for the environment so the scheme is having its effect there.

Anyone that uses lots of water bottles at home I'd suggest something like this.

or

We bought ours in 2019, it sits in our fridge and gets filled up every night or two. We got it because I got sick of getting bottled water for people in the house when the tap water is actually fine.

I have seen the machines inside and outside at different supermarkets in Germany.

Inside is often the only option available to urban supermarkets because they don't own any outside space at the front. Obviously they can't place them on the streets because the street is public space owned by the local authority.

It is a Government initiative. The legislation setting it all up specifically required the beverage producers to collectively come together and set up an entity to manage the scheme. They were legally bound to create the company, on instruction from the Government. The general parameters for the scheme and indeed the company are all in the legislation, but the finer details of the scheme were for the company to determine.

There won't ever be a 100% return rate, but even if there was, Re-turn would still be ok, because their main source of income is the registration fees retailers have to pay them to be part of the scheme in the first place, and fees Producers have to pay them for putting the containers on the market. Plus they get to sell all the material they collect. I know we've discussed the fact that they'll keep unclaimed deposits, but that's only going to be a very small fraction of their revenue.

I mentioned it before, but here's a recap of how the scheme (i.e. Re-turn themselves) is funded:

As for a 100k salary, you can be sure that the CEO is earning a lot more than that. He left a job as MD of DHL to run this scheme, and someone with a lot of experience has to run it. Employees need to be paid, and the market sets the rates for all levels. I don't see the corporate governance side of this as an issue at all.

Unfortunately, the scheme simply cannot be designed to suit 100% of the population. There will always be outliers. You happen to be one.

The current scheme works and suits the majority of the population.

Primarily because it is simple and convenient, the polar opposite of this one.