Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

For years being gay was treated as a mental illness.

We're getting a better understanding of these things now. We understand that sexuality isn't binary.

The same goes for gender.

And I understand why people find it hard to understand. I found it hard to understand. I still don't completely understand it. The idea of being trans is completely alien to me. I don't understand what it's like. I don't understand what they feel. In my head it's weird. But to fair I don't know what it's like to be gay. I'm straight. The idea of wanting to have a sexual experience with a guy is alien to me. The only way I can align it in my head is to say they feel the same about men that I feel about women. But my own feeling of my gender is so innate that I have trouble imagining what it's like to not have it.

But I've learned that i don't need to understand it. Trans people exist. They are real people. They have genuine authentic experiences. And it's backed up by the vast majority of the medical establishment. We just need to accept that they are the way they are.

btw, no-one is mutilating children. The road to medically transitioning is long. There's a lot of checks before they reach that point. can this be improved? definitely. They may be some occasions where extra time is needed, and occasions when less time is needed. So we should be investing more money into research and treatment, both counselling and medical treatments. Banning it is just wrong. It's been proven over and over again that when society accepts trans people, they have a far better quality of life.

I thought the program was pretty good. They asked TENI to take part but they refused.

Very few children would have received surgical intervention here. The concern is mainly around puberty blockers and cross sex hormone treatment. Initially it was claimed that blockers are reversible and their purpose was to provide a waiting space for children to question their identity, but the stats show that almost everyone who goes on puberty blockers goes on to receive hormone treatment later. There's scant evidence that they are actually reversible as well. The usage is "off label" and the manufacturers apparently don't want to conduct trials to study their effects.

What I find amazing about all this, is that the origin of this mode of treatment is the so-called "Dutch Protocol" which required patients to be heavily screened for suitability, and which afaik, is what the two doctors on the program advocate. So, why then is the HSE ignoring their advice? What other branch of medicine does this happen? I don't think any other branch of medicine is so heavily influenced by non-medically qualified activists.

Gender "dysmorphia" doesn't exist.

Perhaps you meant research on Gender dysphoria. What is this research? Links?

Would you like to share your research please?

Should we bring 'parents guesses' into all other medical treatment scenarios? Let's see if parents can make guesses about cardiac issues, meningitis, sepsis, query limb fractures, autism, depression - we can hold off on all treatments for these so, right?

Why? Who are you to decide its not in the best interests of someone to make their own decisions about their own life?

Research from Australia , Spain, Netherlands, UK, US all demonstrates a low level of desistance - for trans adolescents it’s only around 2%

Trans healthcare/social transition doesn’t harm trans kids.

Denying them does.

What's common sense about denying trans kids and forcing them to deny their own existence?

But puberty blockers have been used for decades to stop early onset puberty. Whether they're used earlier or later, there's a lot of experience in their use. Just because they're using it on someone trans and not cis, doesn't make a difference to the medical outcome.

It's not for me to decide. I'm saying it should be doctors who decide. An extreme comparison maybe, but doctors can prescribe fentanyl for the relief of certain kinds of severe pain. "Choosing" to put that in your body outside a doctor's control nearly always ends in disaster.

As for the research, there's an awful lot of poor quality research out there. Systematic reviews are the highest standard and they are saying the evidence basis is not there.

Well why are you suggesting it's not in people's best interest if you believe it's for doctors to decide?

There's a huge difference between a condition like early onset puberty with a physiological cause versus one like gender dysphoria which has a psychological cause. That's why the use is approved in one case and off label in the other.

Why?

Indeed. It could be argued pretending trans kids don't exist is using them as ideological pawns. It's an ideology to pretend trans kids don't exist.

None of which are in any way unique, so it doesn't really seem to be about being unique.

Are you suggesting that trans kids don't exist, or should be just ignored until they reach 18?

Many trans kids 'know about this kind of stuff' from four or five onwards, because they are living it. It's hard to be 'having fun' when a fundamental part of your human nature is wrong, and you're being forced to live a life that doesn't match what you are.

It IS doctors who decide. No one gets medication, surgery, even therapy without having been medically assessed.

Forcing someone to live a life that is fundamentally wrong for them is nothing to do with 'causing offence, perceived or otherwise'. It is a cruel and unusual torture.

Because they knew the programme would be completely unbalanced, and they didn't want to give it any legitimacy, most likely.

Of course they do.

But the recent trend of teenage girls saying they are boys is another story.

No insight at all into why teenage girls suddenly saying they're boys.

"Like being rogered!". Have you not heard of Tops and Bottoms!

Really! Evidence for this?

https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity/

There's two short articles. In general though, an autistic person is far more likely to be LGBTQ+ and that goes for every letter there.

Edit: BTW, they were just the first two google results. There was just page after page when I googled it. If you're interested in knowing more about neurodivergence I'd recommend a book called "Unmasking Autism". It's written by a neurodivergent queer person.

They did indeed give a statement:

https://teni.ie/teni-statement-to-rte-prime-time/

That might be the case in theory, but in practice maybe not so much. Minister Mary Butler was caught saying it out loud below, and she had to be protected by her officials by removing it from the minutes of the meeting mentioned:

GenderGP provides medication through the internet without any face to face consultation. Then there's the question of the quality and depth of any medical assessment that is done. Maybe sometimes it was thorough, but multiple whistle-blowers from the Tavistock have claimed that wasn't always the case.

The research that fed into the conversion therapy ban bill identifies "interactions with therapists who created barriers to gender affirming care" as possible conversion therapy. If that becomes law, it will create a chilling effect on doctors, and a pressure to affirm whatever it is that a teenager is saying.

Not at all.

What is in question is the model of care, not the fact that care is needed.

If a person feels like they are a cat, you can:

1 Start treating them like a cat immediately , or

2 Sympathetically and politely explore this feeling, where it came from, what it means for them and their future or

3 kick the up the backside and tell them not to be so stupid.

3 is nuts. But so is 1.

Except that there is no feline involvement with this topic. It is about transgender people.

So would you like to restate your position for transgender people? Are you proposing a kick up the arse as appropriate treatment?