Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

Agent Coulson · 04-12-2023 8:28pm

No way Disney can keep Jonathan Majors after what was said in court today he is a nasty piece of work.

Foxtrol · 04-12-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454658#Comment_121454658

What have you been using as a source?

What I've read actually muddied the waters for me. He sounded guilty of horrible stuff beforehand but even if you believe just everything the prosecutor said in their opening statement it seems more like a super messy situation than anything it was billed to be. Maybe it was the hyperbole of the initial backlash about it but I expected it all to be far worse and more damning.

Even info like her going out partying with 3 complete strangers she met on the street after the incident raises some questions compared to what people were saying when the allegations came out. Also, it being him who found her passed out on the floor in their apartment after taking pills and he was the first one to call the police.

Seems the biggest differences between them is who hurt who more fighting over a phone, prosecutor accepting that she started it, and the level of force he used to put her back in the car.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/jonathan-majors-trial-prosecutors-allege-abuse-defense-calls-it-revenge-1235710857/

~Rebel~ · 04-12-2023 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454946#Comment_121454946

I think what's going to hurt him most is the alleged consistent history of coercive control, which is what loads of other people came out afterwards saying they'd experienced too. Could well be a case of being hard to prove the specific in-car assault itself, but with the details that come out of the broader relationship, and his issues with other people, just showing him to be a horrible person that people won't want to work with. Much like the Ulster rugby lads, where it was the reveal of their generally horrible behaviour rather than criminal guilt, that hurt their careers.

As for the going out with strangers thing - that kind of fits in with someone who's afraid. It makes more sense to me that someone in fear would be more willing to tag onto some strangers for safety. If she'd gone out with friends it would look worse and more carefree, but just inserting yourself into someone else's night feels like more of a desperation move.

Foxtrol · 04-12-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455055#Comment_121455055

Safety isn't what it appears the prosecution are even saying though and it doesn't really stack up. She got back into the car with Majors after meeting those people on the street and then tried to stop Majors from leaving the car. He went to a hotel and she could have gone anywhere for safety but went out drinking with strangers and then back to Majors' apartment - where she called him 32 times before taking sleeping tablets.

Agree somewhat with what you said about what is likely going to hurt Majors the most but I'd go a step further and say the most damaging will be the people who read the headlines and have made their minds up already and will either ignore any evidence that casts doubt on what they believe is true or wont listen to the facts of the case at all. Actually quite similar to your example of the Ulster rugby lads.

Agent Coulson · 05-12-2023 2:21pm

Amazon making a live action Spider-Man noir with Steve Lightfoot as showrunner.

It follows an older, grizzled superhero in 1930s New York City.

https://deadline.com/2023/12/spider-man-noir-series-amazon-steve-lightfoot-co-showrunner-1235651990/

Brief_Lives · 05-12-2023 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457270#Comment_121457270

quick, aside. I never knew there was a Shantarum tv series. I adored the book... read it many times.

anyone know if it is any good?

Foxtrol · 11-12-2023 11:42pm

On the Majors trial, from the details coming out I wouldn't be surprised if he gets off.

She is proving to be a very unreliable witness, constantly changing her story. Their driver on the night testified today that she was the aggressor, thinks it was her that hit him, and he was trying to get away from her - 'he was not doing anything, she was doing everything'. Some of that is supported by video of her chasing him down the road for multiple blocks. Her street friends that she went to the club with testified she never said anything about being injured, didn't look injured, or act injured - again supported by multiple videos of her not bleeding and using her fractured finger.

The most damning evidence against him are texts to her saying he feared the police but they're from months before the incident so don't have value in proving guilt that night. If anything, they could cast more doubt as he was the one who called the police that morning.

All of this is before the defense calls any witnesses. Obviously things can change at any point, especially if he chooses to testify and messes it up, but I'm expecting there to be a lot of outrage when the verdict is announced, as the media seem to be mostly grabbing anything negative to put in headlines and burying details, if not ignoring them altogether.

pixelburp · 14-12-2023 10:30am

The Majors stuff getting more than a little untenable for Marvel at this stage; I listened to one of the voice recordings where Majors basically gives his ex Grace Jabbari a dressing down for going out for drinks with her friends & bringing one home after. It's not evidence of domestic violence, but it really paints Majors as a tremendously controlling, conceited ásshole aside from anything else. Was hard to listen after a point, and glad to hear Jabbari is rid of him.

“How dare you come home drunk and disturb the peace of our house when we have a plan. … I would like to get to the point where your friends know what job I’m on and go, ‘I think Grace is going to be out of commision.’ … Do you understand that?” ... “Grace has to be in a certain mindset, to support—Coretta Scott King, do you know who that is? That’s Martin Luther King’s wife. Michelle Obama, Barack Obama’s wife.”

“Let me just lay it out for you. I’m just gonna say this ... my temper, my ****, my [trauma], blah blah blah—all that said, I’m a great man. A great man. I am doing great things, not just for me but for my culture and for the world,” ... “That is actually the position I’m in. That’s real. I’m not being a dick about it. I didn’t ask for it. I’ve worked and that’s the situation. The woman that supports me—that I support—needs to be a great woman and make sacrifices the way that man is making for her and for them ultimately. Last night, two nights ago, you did not do that. You did not do that, which took away from the plan. And the plan is everything.”

That was a nice career you nearly had Jonathan; I doubt he's the first top-tier actor with delusions of his own worth, transposed onto their partners, but in this day & age this shít has a tendancy to go public & a studio like Marvel doesn't want egos. Downey Jr. has been as large as they come & even then that actor has had his Road to Damascus and learned to work on his sense of self.

https://twitter.com/cheyenneisround/status/1734984984325157356

flazio · 14-12-2023 10:35am

It's a tough situation, Marvel can't move until they have a legal reason to sack him and after the struggles of Phase 4, aren't exactly rolling in dough to just pay him off.

Penn · 14-12-2023 10:52am

Yeah I heard that audio recording yesterday. If I were Marvel I'd definitely be starting to distance from him as much as possible, and not be part of his "plan".

F*cking "plan".... needs his partner to be like MLK's wife or Michelle Obama..... Dude you're playing 'Kang The Conqueror' in comic book movies. Your partner could be Michelle Obama herself and you wouldn't be Barack Obama, you'd still just be an actor caked in makeup playing Kang The F*cking Conqueror.

pixelburp · 14-12-2023 11:05am

There's also the accidentally noteworthy point that when it comes to public perception and fondness, Michelle has become the more liked & admired person compared with Barack. Probably helps she doesn't have a legacy of a political career to contend with - but interesting how Majors obviously sees Michelle as the ... I dunno, Faithful Wife Unit and inherently inferior position to his Great Man delusion.

Penn · 14-12-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493574#Comment_121493574

Oh they could easily pay him off. Regardless of Phase 4, they're Scrooge McDuck'ing in money from Phases 1-3.

Even then, paying him off could be less costly than people boycotting movies because Majors is in them, and even if there's no domestic violence charges brought against him, he's shown himself to be very manipulative and controlling. He's tarnished to the point where Marvel buying out his contract (given that they nabbed him when he wasn't a big name so he may not have been on huge money) could be more cost-effective at this point.

pixelburp · 14-12-2023 11:10am

I'm not even sure people would boycott the films based off of Majors behaviour - but like Ezra Miller, it could be a situation where their very presence poisons the well; that instead of talking about the big upcoming blockbuster and how the MCU is shaking out, everything is just continuous bad press about the giant ásshole at the centre of it all.

CastorTroy · 14-12-2023 1:25pm

How many people that watch the films would know the news about him or care? It's not like it's getting Johnny Depp level of coverage.

Foxtrol · 14-12-2023 3:49pm

I'm not sure how some square watching any movies if an actor being 'conceited' is justifiable grounds for them losing their career. I doubt many of your friends or family would like to be recorded in your worst moments when having an argument with a partner - especially under the context that only one side knew the recording was happening and can tailor and edit the conversation.

The list of successful actors who have never acted conceited in public or private is tiny. Same people calling for Majors' head now continue to fawn over Tom Cruises movies, who has a lot longer list of accusations against him. Seems like people grasping for an excuse in case he is found not guilty - I'll keep my suspicions as to why he is being treated to a different standard to myself.

As for media attention, the video of him trying to get away from her being the aggressor and her chasing him for several blocks seems to be getting a lot of media attention and I suspect if he is acquitted the story might pivot that direction more, whether enough to salvage his career remains to be seen. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was him chasing her like that he'd rightfully never work again.

https://twitter.com/big_business_/status/1735010570649182348

There is a definite argument that someone should not be trusted to be one of the faces of an enormous franchise who has poor enough decision making to stay in such a clearly toxic relationship that could explode like this. He has already brought enough bad press for him to get the boot and obviously if any of the violence claims can be proven his position isn't tenable.

~Rebel~ · 14-12-2023 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495141#Comment_121495141

There's a fairly long standing pattern to follow here though... like, you reference Cruise, and Robert Downey Jr is another in the same filmic universe - your career doesn't need to end, but in the immediate aftermath of these things there's always a drop. Cruise had a massive drop, as did RDJ, and they worked their way back up when their craziness was less in the public eye. I'd expect the same here. He'll get dropped from the highest profile gig in the film world while his issues are at their most public, he'll do smaller things for a while, and work himself back into good spots in a few years time.

Zero-Cool · 14-12-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496775#Comment_121496775

Sounds like a plan 😂

Foxtrol · 14-12-2023 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496775#Comment_121496775

That is probably pretty likely - however it doesn't change the hypocrisy of folks calling for his head while championing other actors with a longer list of accusations.

I do feel there is a chance that if he gets acquitted the narrative turns to one of him being a victim. If not of a victim of his girlfriend then a victim of the DA, who took the case to court with changing complaint and so little evidence - not charging her also when there is arguably more against her. That is the line his defense attorney pushed today during closing, rather than just playing to reasonable doubt. It was PR as much as trying to get him off.

In that scenario race would understandably come into play and it wont be easy for Marvel to drop him then. The woman in question, and or others, going to the media with their stories could change things again - however the media and public like easy narratives so they'll pick a side and everything will be framed around that.

The White Wolf · 14-12-2023 11:29pm

I'm fairly sure I read those messages weeks ago if not months ago. It's nothing new.

I don't like how Majors spoke to her, but at worst he's an insanely egotistical actor and for that he can join a long line.

The other testimony does not paint her in a good light at all and he's an idiot for getting involved, but it doesn't deserve a career being destroyed based on what's been said so far.

The problem is that Marvel have his career in their hands, because if they drop him, it will be very hard for him to shake that. RDJ was an addict. Cruise at worst is into weird religious ****. These things can be rectified in recultivating an image. Being dropped for domestic assault by the biggest studio in Hollywood is a whole other kettle of fish.

pixelburp · 15-12-2023 8:24am

Never actually said Majors "deserved" to have a career ruined, so no intention defending things I didn't say. Wish Ignore lists scrubbed quoted posts. Odd that in my "worst moments" I've never shouted at and dictated to my wife how and when she conducted her social life. Or who she brought home. Though if I started bollicking on that I was a Great Man, she'd probably just laugh hysterically at me 🤭

However, his pomposity in comparison with the actual career he has had so far makes the thing darkly hilarious and he's quickly making himself not worth the effort vs. the reward. As Penn noted, his most famous role is Kang the Conqueror. If this is how he is before he's properly famous?

Now on the other hand, if proven true, his career deserves to be ruined if the domestic violence charges and evidence are confirmed. Then he can rot on the CW or whoever will take him.

https://twitter.com/cheyenneisround/status/1734984984325157356

pjohnson · 15-12-2023 8:40am

The fact Kang has been so midling in his reception, mostly because of Majors ropey performances would mean a recast could be very welcome to try and salvage this phase.

pixelburp · 15-12-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497527#Comment_121497527

Whatdya mean, his stu-stu-stu-stuttering Victor Timely was an important piece of work for the culture, and instantly iconic 🤭

When all's said and done, Kang is a terrible character with a mediocre motivation. Part of Thanos' genius was both an immediate existential and relatable motivation (overpopulation! I'm the good guy, really!), and several characters had a direct relationship with him to sweeten the drama.

Kang is a cartoon ranting about Multiverses and if there's one thing being a Doctor Who fan has taught me, you can scale your threat too high and too abstract that it loses all sense of tangibility or urgency. All of creation, and variances besides!! Ok, so what, what does that mean?

Maybe the better Phase 4 villain would have been a curveball choice like Mr Fantastic - who has been a comic villain IIRC? A flawed hero who takes a turn to the dark, his plans somewhat relatable and would have a bunch of other characters to bounce off. You get the hype of legacy characters turning up, plus the shock of the good guy gone rogue. Michelle Pfeiffer worrying about a guy with laser beam hands is like, ok, sure?

Penn · 15-12-2023 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497590#Comment_121497590

I think it's the Mr.Fantastic from the Ultimates universe (the same comic universe that Miles Morales was in, separate to the main comics universe) who became a villian. I doubt they could have done Mr.Fantastic as the villian though, especially when they'll definitely want to be using the F4 as MCU headliners going forward. But even then, Doctor Doom is right there.

Kang was more a means to an end. Yeah his motivations and history are pretty one-note compared to Thanos, but when doing so many Multiverse stories, Kang was the obvious choice for over-arching big bad because of how he fits into that. It's not that the bad guy is "Kang" (who as we've seen, could be defeated by Ant-Man of all people), it's that the villians are all "Kangs"; a multiverse of near-infinite Kangs requiring a multiverse of heroes from all the previous MCU and non-MCU films to fight, and where at the end they can whack it all together and keep all the characters they want.

Infinity War worked because it was a movie about Thanos rather than the Avengers. I don't think we ever would have gotten similar for Kang. He's just a bad guy, and in each universe he talks funny in a different way. That's it.

Maybe they will keep him on, but just diminish his role in it to the point where he's little more than just playing Ultron's army of robots. Then rather than have him play a version of Kang as The Beyonder in Secret Wars, have someone else play that role and that they were the one manipulating all the Kangs in order to bring the multiverse of heroes together.

We already know Secret Wars is happening. Maybe that's the way to keep Majors in the Kang role but pare down his prominence and put a new actor in as the real big bad behind him.

pixelburp · 15-12-2023 10:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497644#Comment_121497644

Kang was more a means to an end. Yeah his motivations and history are pretty one-note compared to Thanos, but when doing so many Multiverse stories, Kang was the obvious choice for over-arching big bad because of how he fits into that. It's not that the bad guy is "Kang" (who as we've seen, could be defeated by Ant-Man of all people), it's that the villians are all "Kangs"; a multiverse of near-infinite Kangs requiring a multiverse of heroes from all the previous MCU and non-MCU films to fight, and where at the end they can whack it all together and keep all the characters they want.

Yeah it's probably where it's all going but narratively, it reads like a terrible idea cos the solution to "all the heroes" isn't "all the heroes time infinity!!" IMO. Death becomes meaningless once there are 3 more Thor's down the line. Things don't need to go smaller but they have to stay personal. Even Infinity War's madness had emotional cores, as you say it was really about Thanos and his relationship with Gamora / Nebula. Where you establish that with Kang I can't see; maybe it'll come.

You look at the SpiderVerse films and it has its own infinity of spider-people (and T-Rex's, cats and pigs): but the movies excel and are, frankly, some of the best superhero films ever made, precisely because the stakes were kept personal and immediate. Miles dealing with the insanity of his universe Vs the emotional response of "canon" and the fate of his dad. Ditto Gwen, Miguel and so on. Big ideas, small scale concerns.

While something like Everything Everywhere All At Once did similar: all the universes to play with, sanity be damned, but the crux of the story came back to a mum and daughter reconciling their differences.

But then, maybe this retooling that's coming is gonna address all this - but it's already on the back foot imo, which ain't great.

johnny_ultimate · 15-12-2023 10:27am

Kang is Majors’ least interesting role - a genuine ‘where did this guy come from?’ performance in The Last Black Man In San Francisco, and only seemed to be on the up and up. Magazine Dreams seems like it would’ve been a real awards player for him and potential career-guarantor, but now the film is likely to be buried.

He is a rather remarkable screen presence, but the various allegations about his behaviour seem pretty nasty even if he’s acquitted in this trial. At best, we’re looking at a promising career soured through his own actions.

Penn · 15-12-2023 1:17pm

https://twitter.com/ScarletWitchUpd/status/1734901571685618155?s=20

Agatha show rumoured to have undergone another name change. It's now "Agatha ~~House of Harkness~~ ~~Coven of Chaos~~ ~~Darkhold Diaries~~ All Along"

This feels very panicky, like they have to try remind people that this is a show about the character they liked early in Phase 4. They may as well have renamed it "Agatha: REMEMBER THE SONG! YOU LIKED THE SONG!"

pjohnson · 15-12-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498651#Comment_121498651

Watching Agents of Shield I cant help but think how much of a missed opportunity it was not keeping it going and tied to the MCU as loosely tied as it was.

The longer multi-series characters really could have led much better into any supposed spin offs and led to a much better handling of new characters in general.

Its insane that Bob and Hunter never got past an unaired pilot and Robbie never got his own Ghost Rider.

Foxtrol · 15-12-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498719#Comment_121498719

Dont think I'd agree.

I loved the show but it had too many seasons for casual MCU fans to get onboard who came later in the game. If a general moan is about characters being introduced from shows like Wandavision which is 6 hours long, they'd lose their minds if they had to go watch 100 hours of AoS.

I also really enjoyed those characters in AoS but that spin off sounded terrible - it was one of those where there was just no need for it.

Penn · 15-12-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498719#Comment_121498719

It was kind of a dumb idea to do an Agents of Shield show when the films were literally going to destroy SHIELD before the end of the first season. They made it work, but they really had to make a lot of concessions to then make SHIELD just be Coulson's team, a few underground bases, they're now dark ops etc. At that point, they could never interconnect with the MCU in any real way.

Foxtrol · 15-12-2023 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497498#Comment_121497498

I've had plenty of couple friends over the years, male and female, who have had issues with the drinking of their other half. Usually it comes to a boil when they are at different stages in their life, one wanting to settle down and the other stay partying or when they have different employment status, one being employed and funding the household. I agree that I hope none of them called themselves 'great' during the discussions but at the same time I wouldn't frame them voicing their feelings about the other person's actions and how it is impacting them as terribly controlling. Some people stay in relationships that are toxic when they shouldn't but love and attraction make people do dumb.

On the person you've been repeatedly shared tweets of, if you look through their timeline there isn't one mention of anything that points to Majors being potentially innocent. They clearly have a view that they are trying to push, like it seems with a decent number of the more active reporters on twitter who are tied to this case (mostly in their tweets, the stories themselves tend to be more balanced).

Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

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